Thanks for having this conversation. Having a balanced life is important, but why should the revenues generated by volunteer work not go back to volunteers also? In truth, wikimedia projects are addictive, time consuming, they generate passionate debates and I have seen many going down the black hole and finding it hard to manage “priorities”. This situation is detrimental to those who struggle most to survive. Should contributing be the activity of only those rich people who can afford to be volunteers on their free time? I dont think so. Tackling with gendergap issues, I see many women not contributing because they say “it’s time consuming” and they cant afford it. I don’t know how to deal with these issues, but at the core of implementing “strategic orientations” which include diversity issues, well it is a must have conversation. As for the wikimedia blog I dont really have an idea on that: if the WMF does it, finances it, well ... At the same time it would need to remain under free licence so that we can use the stories in our projects, because the revenue paying it is generated from our volunteer work.
Have a nice day, I have just bought myself a canoe kayak, which is the only way for me not to get entangled in contributing on a bright sunny day. I cant bring my computer on the river! I think we should finance “wikimedians go green off wiki for the week end projects”. Some days off the internet walking, swimming, having chats by a fire wood and just taking care of ourselves off wiki. Nattes à chat > Le 10 juin 2018 à 05:38, Bodhisattwa Mandal <bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> a > écrit : > > Hi David, > > I hear you. > > I live in that part of the world where getting any job and earning money, > by any means possible, is the topmost priority of life, as unemployment and > corruption has become intimate part of most of the people. Involvement in > volunteer works with no personal or financial gain, is not appreciated at > all and sanity is frequently questioned even by family members and close > friends. The real life is far more harsh for us than the issues we face in > Wikipedia. > > But, I have seen people, who have fought against all extreme odds to create > contents in Wikimedia. I met an Wikimedian, who would have no food or money > for the next day to survive, if he didn't go and look for some labour work > and earn some money for his family, yet learned advanced computer works > from scratch with the help of a Jurassic age broken laptop gifted by a > well-wisher and built the most impactful project in his language, believe > me, I have seen that laptop with my own eyes. I know someone, very close to > my heart, who once spent the small amount of money he had with him, to pay > the cyber cafe, he went almost everyday to edit Wikipedia, even if he knew, > that the money he was spending, was his last resort for that day. These > Wikimedians are no less than a legend to me and whenever I feel frustrated > and burnt out, I remember them. I am pretty sure, everyone in this movement > knows someone amazing. > > You are absolutely right, people who build Wikipedia from their core of > their heart are not heard or appreciated in larger Wikimedia world, some of > them are silently contributing forl a long time , without any expectation > from anyone. On the other hand, I have seen loud mouths with almost no > substantial or impactful contribution at all, being featured everywhere on > a regular basis. That's an unfair world we everyday deal with and Wikimedia > is not an exception. > > I will totally support you, if you create a meta page for these silent > volunteers, who needs to be seen. > > Best, > Bodhisattwa > > > >> On Sun, 10 Jun 2018, 01:56 David Cuenca Tudela, <dacu...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Aubrey, >> >> You speak so much truth in your words that I'm feeling overwhelmed right >> now. Because like a doctor who cares about his patient, you have just very >> lovingly and figuratively told me, "you are deeply sick". It hurts, I >> struggle accepting the truth, but deep inside I know that the only thing I >> can do is to acknowledge your words, and as every human before of me ask >> the perennial questions: "why me? what could have I done differently?" >> >> You are right, I put my whole being into this project, I have seen it as a >> way to find purpose, meaning, liberation, and instead what I have found is >> the emptiness, my own and that of the people who are in the same situation >> as me. Maybe they also need the same things as I do, but we never talked >> about it so I don't know what they need, they never told me. Unlike other >> people, however, I do know what I need to find purpose here. >> >> To me purpose comes from the mutual acknowledgment with my peers that we >> are here for something bigger than ourselves. We might never achieve those >> dreams, but being next to someone who understands you because they are in >> the same situation, makes life more bearable. But do we share the same >> dream or aspiration at all? Has anyone ever take a collective vow to show >> to themselves and to others that this is what matters in their life, and >> that they are committing to it? I do not think anyone has ever done that. >> You say that you have given up, but I do not want to reach that point. I >> feel I want to try to build a real community environment and give everyone >> a chance before giving up on them. >> >> My desire as I was typing my email was to be seen, to be recognized by who >> I am, to be understood even. That is something that only a true friend >> could do for me, but as you say we are not good friends even if we did some >> cool things together. We want to collect "all human knowledge", but what do >> we actually know about each other? Is that not valid knowledge or what? In >> my opinion the knowledge about the people in this movement, what they do, >> who they are, what are their dreams, their aspirations, should be collected >> with at least as much interest as we collect all other kind of knowledge. >> Yet nobody does that. >> >> If there is no collective information about who I am and what I have done >> these years, how can I expect other people to value me as much as I want to >> value them? I am as guilty as anyone else for not caring about my fellow >> volunteers in this project, but that doesn't need to continue being that >> way, it can change. I can commit to write a page on Meta about any >> volunteer who wants their work on this project to be seen and recognized, >> and of course anyone can do that for me to. We only need the will. >> >> You say that that WMF bears responsibility in the "failure" of our >> Wikisource community project, and that it is not important now. I do not >> agree about the timing, I find it is very relevant now, because the same >> pattern that has happened before, it is happening again now. And the >> pattern is that of the individual voice vs. the organization. We are like >> ants next to a giant, we complain and say what we need, but we are so >> little in comparison that our voice doesn't reach any ears. For Wikisource >> we thought, ok, if we are not being heard as individuals maybe we'll be >> heard as an organization, but that didn't happen either! So now that I have >> this issue about the Wikimedia Blog and I complain about it, I feel >> helpless because it is again an individual standing up against a behemoth >> that will not listen neither to myself as individual nor to myself as an >> organization. What is there for me left to do? >> >> The only thing it is left for me to do is to question the legitimacy of the >> WMF as the leadership organization of the Wikimedia movement, understanding >> leadership as the capacity to listen to many individual voices and act in a >> way that is beneficial to all of them. If the WMF is incapable of listening >> to my individual voice, then I want either a reform in the WMF to include >> people who are able to listen at the top of the hierarchy, or a new >> organization who can listen and create a common vision out of what it >> hears. Things like the Strategy process are supposed to help with this >> goal, however I feel it doesn't offer the space for day to day activities >> or to challenge participants with new ideas, then it has no use for me. >> >> So yes, I will follow your advice and I will pick my battles, putting >> myself first. In this case my battle from this moment on is to recognize >> the authority of the Wikimedia movement as a whole, and build leadership >> legitimacy for me and all those in the movement who are able to listen. I >> do believe that such people exist in our movement (I know a few), and that >> they have a very high capacity for listening, but they themselves are not >> being heard, and that is extremely unfair, and it is something I would like >> to correct because me and the movement would benefit greatly. And as you >> said money is necessary, so it has to be paid. >> >> @SJ: as you can see from my email, there are deeper issues than just the >> blog. >> >> @Pine: Thank you for our conversation this morning. I learnt a lot from >> hearing your perspective, and I felt heard by you because you gave me the >> opportunity to voice my concerns, and you asked me questions about them. >> >> @Frederick: Yes, money is an issue that has to be discussed with the >> community broadly. I think it might be too much to elaborate about it now >> on this conversation, but it can be the topic for another thread. >> About volunteer burnout, I feel many of us feel underappreciated because >> there is no space in our projects for appreciation. For now the only >> proposal I had in mind is about creating pages on Meta for volunteers, so >> the work of individuals can be seen completely. Perhaps it needs more >> discussion. >> >> Regards, >> Micru >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
