Hoi,
It is all a matter of perception. I work at Wikidata particularly on
Africa. I notice how little data we have on Wikidata. Today for instance I
added ministers of health because we just did not have this. We do not have
the geographic data that is what we need if we only want to know where
someone was born/died.. I regularly add universities to Wikidata because we
do not have them.

You can say that everything is well in hand, we were there, and these nice
people are really active. Sure. Compare that with the American meet up
where it was professionals getting to grips with how to get the most out of
our projects.

We took away what enabled children to make use of Wikipedia, the question
is what did we do to compensate.
Thanks,
      GerardM

On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 at 19:19, Paulo Santos Perneta <paulospern...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>  What websites are you talking about, Gerard? I couldn't get that part.
>
> Africa is way more engaged and active that the impression that often passes
> to the rest of the movement, and I believe that the WMF staff that went to
> Wiki Indaba has noticed that (it was impossible not to notice it, IMO). I
> was at Wiki Indaba, and my impression is that the WMF was well and properly
> represented at the conference, that the money was well spent and that there
> will be/ already are practical and noticeable improvements in the
> engagement with the wiki communities in Africa on the part of the WMF after
> that.
>
> Best,
> Paulo
>
> Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> escreveu no dia sábado,
> 16/11/2019 à(s) 16:12:
>
> > Hoi,
> > What language does the staff, the departments speak.
> >
> > What chance for the current bias to be sustained and for no real progress
> > where we do a mediocre job at best.. Did we EVER research what the effect
> > was of ending the free access to our articles when we ended our program.
> Do
> > we know how to make a difference and are we willing to let go of what
> holds
> > us back?
> >
> > Just compare the recent conventions and the money spend. Africa could be
> so
> > much more active when our websites are as good there as what we are
> > accustomed to. Yes, staff went to Africa and then what?
> > Thanks,
> >        GerardM
> >
> > On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 at 16:04, Peter Southwood <
> > peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > If the changes get staff more directly and personally involved in
> > > communicating with the rest of the community it could be helpful to
> both
> > > groups,
> > > Cheers,
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Dariusz Jemielniak
> > > Sent: 16 November 2019 12:39
> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation Chief of Community
> > > Engagement to leave the Foundation
> > >
> > > hi,
> > >
> > > speaking just in my personal opinion and capacity, without discussing
> it
> > > with anyone else: only time will tell whether this structural change
> > works,
> > > and jumping to conclusions is definitely premature.
> > >
> > > In principle, as a person specializing in management and organizational
> > > change, I can tell that there is no one-size-fits-all solution. I can
> > > definitely see a lot of possible benefits to the restructuring though,
> > and
> > > we definitely DO want all WMF departments to be in touch with the
> > > communities. The proposed approach tries to address the siloses. Every
> > > department will have good interface with the CE issues, and this is a
> > good
> > > thing. Whether it leads to better CE prioritization is unknown yet, but
> > > structurally it can definitely help.
> > >
> > > On a practical level, given the fact that our previous search for the
> > > C-level position for CE took more than half a year, AFAIR, in the short
> > > term the assumed approach allows us to leapfrog a lot of turmoil, which
> > > could be damaging to community engagement in this crucial moment (last
> > > stretch of our strategic exercise effort). In the long run - I am
> certain
> > > that the WMF leadership does not believe in things written in stone.
> > >
> > > I'd be really reluctant to assume the restructuring is good or bad for
> > the
> > > community as it is, everything depends on how the new structure is used
> > in
> > > practice.
> > >
> > > best,
> > >
> > > dj "pundit"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 1:29 AM Paul J. Weiss <pjwe...@uw.edu<mailto:
> > > pjwe...@uw.edu>> wrote:
> > > I find the disbanding of the Community Engagement department at WMF to
> be
> > > quite concerning. I will go so far as to say that I view it as a
> mistake
> > > that will have negative impacts well into the future.
> > >
> > > For one thing, the structure of an organization is in some sense a
> > > statement of priorities. I believe this move does indeed say to
> > employees,
> > > the community, allied organization, and the rest of the world that the
> > WMF
> > > is now placing less value on engaging the community. Given that many in
> > the
> > > community have been feeling this already, this is not an opportune time
> > to
> > > make this transition, even if it were a good idea for other reasons.
> > >
> > > Another issue is the specific placement of individual teams. For
> example,
> > > you say that returning the Trust & Safety team to the Legal department
> is
> > > intuitive. It certainly is not to me, and that move in particular is
> > > concerning. The team's homepage on Meta states that it "identifies,
> > builds
> > > and – as appropriate – staffs processes which keep our users safe;
> > design,
> > > develop, and execute on a strategy that integrates legal, product,
> > > research, and learning & evaluation to proactively mitigate risk as
> well
> > as
> > > manage the overall safety of our online and offline communities when
> > > incidents happen." The legal aspect is only one of many in the team's
> > > purview, and hopefully not a large one.
> > >
> > > In my experience, units within legal departments take a very legalistic
> > > view of their work. As one example, many colleges and universities have
> > an
> > > office for students with disabilities. In the US, those that are in
> legal
> > > or policy departments tend to focus very much on doing the minimum they
> > > have to do under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), rather than
> > > being student-centered. (This is the case here at the University of
> > > Washington.) Compare this to the focus of units for women, students of
> > > color, etc., often hierarchically under student services, who are much
> > more
> > > proactive and supportive.
> > >
> > > I definitely do not want Trust & Safety to narrow its focus to ensuring
> > > enforcement & reducing liability. As you know, legal but negative
> > behavior
> > > is a significant threat to the future of Wikipedia and sister projects.
> > The
> > > team needs to be organizationally placed to maximize, not minimize, its
> > > access to resources, the community, and other staff as well as its
> > impact.
> > > Placing it in Legal could, for example, decrease significantly contact
> > and
> > > trust from our community members whose experience with laws is that
> they
> > > are used as weapons and tools to oppress rather than engendering
> fairness
> > > and cooperation.
> > >
> > > Please, please carefully consider the all ramifications of this
> > > reorganization before it is implemented.
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > > Paul Weiss
> > > Libcub on en.wp
> > >
> > > --------- Original Message ---------
> > > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation Chief of Community
> Engagement
> > > to leave the Foundation
> > > From: 'Katherine Maher' <kma...@wikimedia.org<mailto:
> > kma...@wikimedia.org
> > > >>
> > > Date: 11/15/19 3:36 pm
> > > To: 'Wikimedia Mailing List' <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:
> > > wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
> > >
> > > Hello everyone,
> > >
> > > I am writing to let you know that Val D’Costa, Chief Community
> Engagement
> > > Officer, is leaving the Wikimedia Foundation. I also want to share some
> > > changes we’re making around how the Foundation organizes staff in the
> > > Community Engagement department.
> > >
> > > Val joined us last January, bringing nearly three decades of experience
> > > launching and growing international initiatives in emerging markets.
> With
> > > the Wikimedia 2030 movement strategy as a guide, Val and her team
> drafted
> > > an ambitious new vision for the work of Community Engagement—focused on
> > > decentralization of power and resources, safe and welcoming spaces,
> > > equitable collaboration, increased language and cultural fluency,
> > dedicated
> > > programs for groups such as women and young people, and expansive
> > > partnerships in service of free knowledge.
> > >
> > > With this vision in hand, Val and I both see this as the right juncture
> > for
> > > her to move on to her next professional challenge. While she will be
> > > leaving the position of Chief of Community Engagement, she will remain
> on
> > > as a consultant to me for a brief period.
> > >
> > > I am deeply appreciative of Val’s time with us at the Foundation and
> want
> > > to thank her for the contributions she has made to the Wikimedia
> > movement.
> > > She has been a passionate and persuasive advocate for our mission and
> > > pushed us to expand our vision of what could be possible for our
> > movement.
> > > I wish her the absolute best in what she does next.
> > >
> > > *== What comes next for Community Engagement ==*
> > >
> > > I'll be direct -- we are making changes to the CE department structure.
> > >
> > > We will not be starting a search for a new Chief of Community
> Engagement.
> > > Instead, over the course of the next few weeks, the seven teams
> currently
> > > within the Community Engagement (CE) department will be integrated into
> > the
> > > Foundation’s other departments. By January, all of the teams will have
> > > joined their new departments, and “Community Engagement” will no longer
> > be
> > > a standalone department.
> > >
> > > The teams currently in CE will be integrated with other Foundation
> > > departments aligned with executive leadership goals and based on their
> > > scope and focus, as well as how they might grow in the future. Some of
> > > these alignments are intuitive, such as Trust & Safety returning to the
> > > Legal department; others might not be immediately apparent.
> > >
> > > *== What does this mean for your work? ==*
> > >
> > > Although we have a good sense of which teams will integrate with which
> > > departments, we are still meeting with the individual teams to work on
> > the
> > > specific details of the transition. Our focus is on continuity for
> > existing
> > > community programs and support for Foundation staff in making this
> > change.
> > > You may hear from staff seeking input on those arrangements, and I want
> > to
> > > thank you in advance for any feedback you may have.
> > >
> > > We expect to wrap up these conversations in early December, to begin
> > > transitions in mid-December, and for the transitions to be completed by
> > the
> > > beginning of January, at which point we’ll be able to share an overview
> > of
> > > the new arrangements in full.
> > >
> > > The work of the Community Engagement teams will remain the same
> > throughout
> > > this period of transition. For example, if you need something from
> Trust
> > &
> > > Safety or Community Resources, they’ll continue to be here to work with
> > > you. If you have a project or program underway with a CE team or staff
> > > member, that work will also continue. If you have any questions, please
> > > feel free to reach out to Greg Varnum at gvar...@wikimedia.org<mailto:
> > > gvar...@wikimedia.org> or leave
> > > your question in Wikimedia Space [1] and we’ll make sure we find an
> > answer
> > > to your question.
> > >
> > > *== Why are we making this change? ==*
> > >
> > > The Community Engagement department has grown and evolved since it was
> > > created in 2015. We have brought in people with an increasingly diverse
> > set
> > > of skills and backgrounds and introduced new support for additional
> > > languages, geographies, and areas of work, such as community health.
> > >
> > > While this has helped the Foundation come a long way in addressing the
> > > needs of the movement, it has also created complexity. The breadth of
> > > activities and competencies now supported by the department is quite
> > > large—today, we have people working on issues as diverse as GLAM
> > collection
> > > management, participatory grantmaking, and contributor safety—and
> > > increasingly, across many geographies, cultures, and languages.
> > >
> > > This has created challenges for how we effectively coordinate such a
> > range
> > > of specializations, how we assess their efficacy and impact against our
> > > mission. At the same time, as the Foundation has grown, we have
> developed
> > > capacities in other departments who will be good partners to those
> > serving
> > > our community mission.
> > >
> > > In making these changes, we see an opportunity to align the functions
> of
> > > the Foundation with the future of the mission and movement, and better
> > > serve long-time contributors and emerging communities alike. Over time,
> > we
> > > anticipate these new arrangements will deepen the understanding of
> > > community efforts among all Foundation staff and programs, integrate
> > > community perspective across program design and support, and open up
> > space
> > > for bold and fresh thinking about how to move our movement forward.
> > >
> > > *== What about the future? ==*
> > >
> > > Some people may be wondering, what does this mean for the proposed work
> > in
> > > the Annual or Medium Term plans, or the planned restructure of the
> > > Community Engagement department to a new regional approach?
> > >
> > > We remain fully committed to the work and goals of the Medium Term
> Plan.
> > > For example, although Val was not able to attend Indaba to celebrate
> with
> > > the African community, our COO and Deputy General Counsel, Janeen
> Uzzell
> > > and Tony Sebro, both attended.
> > >
> > > The planned restructure and expansion of CE was intended to help us
> > support
> > > the community in achieving these goals. This includes the MTP’s focus
> on
> > > building a thriving movement, increasing community health and
> diversity,
> > > and growing among new languages, regions, and audiences. We set these
> > goals
> > > as part of our interpretation of the Movement Strategy, and they will
> > > remain our focus for the medium term.
> > >
> > > I still believe we need to make many of these changes, as well as be
> > > prepared for further changes that may arise from the recommendations of
> > the
> > > Movement Strategy Working Groups. We see a future that could include
> > > improved regional support, and expanded programmatic support for
> emerging
> > > communities, whether those are new languages, geographies, or areas of
> > > practice.
> > >
> > > However, we are putting those plans on hold for the next few weeks,
> while
> > > we focus is on supporting the existing teams through this transition. I
> > > want us to make sure that goes well, before turning our attention to
> the
> > > future. That said, I fully expect to resume work on how we expand our
> > > support for these critical new areas in the first quarter of the new
> > > calendar year.
> > >
> > > == Final thoughts ==
> > >
> > > I want to be absolutely clear that these changes are in no way an
> > > indication that the Foundation is decreasing our commitment to support
> > for
> > > the movement. I hope you see how this offers an opportunity to do the
> > exact
> > > opposite—to set us up to support the movement in the best way we can.
> > >
> > > For those with an interest in Wikimedia history, it’s worth noting that
> > the
> > > Foundation has taken many different shapes over the years. In 2014,
> teams
> > > focused on community support were embedded in other departments. At the
> > > time, we were much smaller, and our ability to truly engage with the
> full
> > > breadth of the movement was more limited. In 2019, the community
> > engagement
> > > teams are better resourced, more global, and more representative of the
> > > movement (although there’s always space for continued improvement).
> > >
> > > We see this as the right moment to integrate the perspectives,
> > experiences,
> > > and skills of these teams across the Foundation, ensuring that support
> > for
> > > the movement is woven into all the Foundation’s work. As Wikimedians,
> we
> > > know change is a constant—and it is through change that we often do our
> > > best work, solve our hardest problems, and find our new path forward.
> > Thank
> > > you in advance as we take this next step to support the future of our
> > > movement.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Katherine
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/t/wikimedia-foundation-chief-of-community-engagement-to-leave-the-foundation/2194--
> > >
> > > Katherine Maher (she/her)
> > >
> > > Executive Director
> > >
> > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:
> > > wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org>?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > ________________________________________________________
> > > [http://crow.kozminski.edu.pl/minds.jpg]<
> http://nerds.kozminski.edu.pl/>
> > >       prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak
> > > kierownik katedry MINDS (Management in Networked and Digital Societies)
> > > Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego
> > > http://NeRDS.kozminski.edu.pl <http://nerds.kozminski.edu.pl/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ostatnie artykuły:
> > >
> > >   *   Dariusz Jemielniak, Maciej Wilamowski (2017)  Cultural Diversity
> of
> > > Quality of Information on Wikipedias<
> > > http://crow.kozminski.edu.pl/papers/cultures%20of%20wikipedias.pdf>
> > > Journal of the Association for Information Science and Technology 68:
> > 10.
> > > 2460–2470.
> > >   *   Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)  Wikimedia Movement Governance: The
> > Limits
> > > of A-Hierarchical Organization<
> > > http://www.crow.kozminski.edu.pl/papers/wikimedia_governance.pdf>
> > Journal
> > > of Organizational Change Management 29:  3.  361-378.
> > >   *   Dariusz Jemielniak, Eduard Aibar (2016)  Bridging the Gap Between
> > > Wikipedia and Academia<
> > > http://www.crow.kozminski.edu.pl/papers/bridging.pdf> Journal of the
> > > Association for Information Science and Technology 67:  7.  1773-1776.
> > >   *   Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)  Breaking the Glass Ceiling on
> Wikipedia<
> > > http://www.crow.kozminski.edu.pl/papers/glass-ceiling.pdf> Feminist
> > > Review 113:  1.  103-108.
> > >   *   Tadeusz Chełkowski, Peter Gloor, Dariusz Jemielniak (2016)
> > > Inequalities in Open Source Software Development: Analysis of
> > Contributor’s
> > > Commits in Apache Software Foundation Projects<
> > >
> >
> http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/asset?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0152976.PDF
> > >,
> > > PLoS ONE 11:  4.  e0152976.
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
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