We have discussed at svwp the target group for our articles and to which
we should adjust our language.
And we have come to the conclusion 15-16 years old (good) students. If
younger it is too hard to understand the elements we use in an article
to describe an issue. And to write without basic elements will make the
article unreadable. Think of to describe "low pressure" and "coriolis
force" without using some level of elementary items.
But younger persons can enjoy writing and reading of a limited number of
subject, like fan pages for sportspeople
Anders
Den 2022-06-23 kl. 16:16, skrev Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga:
About Txikipedia: the age range is 8-12, but is more 10-12 than 8-9.
The problem is that some of the writers are 8-9 years old, so their
content is quite simple.
Basque language readers are concentrated in a narrow area. We are in
two different states, and three different education administrations,
but we share a common curriculum and things may be different from a
school to another, but not so different as Alabama-London (following
your example).
When I read French Vikidia I think that most of the contents are still
too difficult for 8-9 years old students, but French education system
maybe more advanced in some issues. Or it might be that Vikidia is
centered in 8-13 years old, and 13 years old readers are way better
reading and understanding texts. Klexikon seems very suitable, but
it's logical, since it is written by educators, and not children or
whoever wants to write. When we make courses with university students
who will be the next primary school teachers, they write longer
articles, but not necessarily better. The main goal there is to
explain things as easily as possible, and not granting anything for
known. We advise them to write shorter sentences, without dependencies
and to explain all technical concepts inline, if possible. Also, they
normally add boxes of "did you know?" so they can add a layer for
curious children.
The last issue is accuracy. When you simplify a text, you might
sacrifice accuracy, but these shouldn't collide with truth/neutrality.
A good example would be: "Nearly all animals have a mouth, you have a
mouth, so you are an animal. There are some animals that don't have a
mouth: sponges. You may know sponges from cartoon, and there they have
a mouth, but not in reality. Be aware that the sponge you use at home
may be human-made.". Well, this is an example from the article about
animals that is both correct and simple.
Best
Galder
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* WereSpielChequers <werespielchequ...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, June 23, 2022 3:56 PM
*To:* Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
*Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
Hi,
I'm curious as to what level of reading skill you are writing this for
and also what level of understanding/adulthood.
I see these as two different issues and both are likely to vary
sharply especially between different countries with very different
education systems.
A childrens' encyclopaedia written for nine year olds would surely be
very different than one written for thirteen year olds. And content
that parents of fourteen year olds thought was age inappropriate in
Alabama might be thought appropriate or even bowdlerised by parents of
ten year olds in London.
In other words, are you sure that one single childrens' encyclopaedia
is the answer to either the problem of reading age or age appropriate
content?
Where I think that Wikipedia could and should change re this is in our
use of jargon. To my mind a "general interest" english language
encyclopaedia should be written in plain English. I suspect other
language versions have similar issues. Perhaps if we focussed more on
this we would make it easier for those who wish to create childrens'
versions.
Regards
WSC
On Thu, 23 Jun 2022 at 13:03,
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Small joyy: Txikipedia of the da(Neurodivergent Netizen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 17:13:33 -0700
From: Neurodivergent Netizen <idoh.idreamofhor...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <8c62ada1-09ee-46ff-b27d-389b6bb3e...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="Apple-Mail=_9EEB7F4B-E2E5-42FB-AED5-C7C07107CEF2"
>> That wouldn't be a wise choice that WMF host such a wiki if it
brings the risk of being legaly attacked on that ground, even for
bad reasons and unsuccessfully, whereas it never happened to
Vikidia in 15 years (and very few kind of bad buzz like "look what
they teach to the children").
And of course, any WMF-affiliated wiki would be more at-risk
simply because of the association with the more well-known Wikipedia.
> The document is not really public yet. :-)
I think I can wait until it’s public and proofread. :-)
From,
I dream of horses
She/her
> On Jun 22, 2022, at 1:45 PM, Ziko van Dijk <zvand...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Hello,
> At the moment I am working on a document that extensively
explains how
> we work on the Klexikon. If someone is interested, please send me a
> private message. The document is not really public yet. :-)
> Kind regards
> Ziko
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Klexikon
>
> Am Mi., 22. Juni 2022 um 19:27 Uhr schrieb Mathias Damour
> <mathias.dam...@gmx.fr>:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> De: "Neurodivergent Netizen" <idoh.idreamofhor...@gmail.com>
>> I think a particular hurdle for a standalone WMF-affiliated
kidipedia project is the COPPA, and other similar laws both in the
US and elsewhere that could potentially increase civil liability.
Another hurdle is that America is very aware, perhaps overly
aware, of the potential safety risks when children are involved in
websites. Then you add in the fact that kids are likely to
continue editing Wikipedia instead of Kidipedia, and it’s not
worth the extra effort. This effort would include
hiring/reassigning staff so you can have a team of people for just
Kidipedia, along with the background checks and identity
verification needed. None of that are obstacles that aren’t in the
way of kids editing the existing projects.
>>
>> I predict a WMF-affiliated kidipedia would largely be abandoned
quite quickly.
>>
>> You are probably right. I would say COPPA may not be the
biggest hurdle, yet the british "UK Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups
Act 2006" is another one, and moreover the fact that "America is
very aware, perhaps overly aware, of the potential safety risks
when children are involved in websites" (and I would also say that
"America" weight more the right of parents to control what is
taught to their children and less the right of the children to
inform themselves - the latter being upheld by the Convention on
the Rights of the Child, which the US didn't ratificate - compared
to other countries).
>> We reviewed it on https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Legal_matters
>>
>> That wouldn't be a wise choice that WMF host such a wiki if it
brings the risk of being legaly attacked on that ground, even for
bad reasons and unsuccessfully, whereas it never happened to
Vikidia in 15 years (and very few kind of bad buzz like "look what
they teach to the children").
>>
>> You tell about "hiring/reassigning staff so you can have a team
of people for just Kidipedia", well, that's quite exactly the
point I adressed on this blog post :
>> Vikidia, l’anti-professionnalisation
>> https://www.wikimedia.fr/vikidia-lanti-professionnalisation/
>> ...to tell that the vision of children needing to be only
alongside their closed family and professionals workers - and that
it should be the same if a wiki for children is set (that we would
need professionnal educators either to write the articles, to
design the project or to manage the community or all that
together) - did cause much delay to the wiki encyclopedias for
children, and how we do otherwise on Vikidia.
>>
>> Reminder, the Wikikids project was developped on this page and
subpages :
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids
>>
>> Envoyé: mercredi 22 juin 2022 à 12:37
>> De: "Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga" <galder...@hotmail.com>
>> À: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Objet: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
>> From our experience, is just the opposite: Wikipedia is not
asking any extra step nor age confirmation, and legally you can
have an account even if you are underage. Children are consulting
Wikipedia without limits, and they can find adult content easily.
We don't have any advice about that, nor filters at Commons, where
you can find even porn using words that were not intended for
that. The place is open, and we have massive visits from children,
so providing them a better place, thought for them (as our
strategic direction says) is better that not providing at all.
>>
>> I can only agree!
>>
>>
>> Mathias Damour
>> [[User:Astirmays]]
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