> We do, however, love when teachers use the Simple English Wikipedia as an > educational tool (aka, supervised editing), though more often in user-space > than article-space. For example, see: > https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Schools > <https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Schools>
As a “regular” English WikiGnome, I also love it. I’ve often envisioned a high school after school class, with 14-21* year olds, a mixture of special ed, English Language Learners, and regular ed together editing English and Simple together. *It’s not uncommon for developmentally disabled adults to stay in high school until 21 in America. From, I dream of horses She/her > On Jun 23, 2022, at 4:02 PM, Rae Adimer via Wikimedia-l > <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > > The Simple English Wikipedia is geared towards writing simple content for > kids and others, but not specifically geared towards children as authors. > Both because the majority of basic topics that they'd want to write about are > already covered, and because only the content is simple, not the site's > administration, writing, or policy. Writing on the Simple English Wikipedia > involves simplifying complex topics, which can require a native or > professional understanding of the language. > > We do, however, love when teachers use the Simple English Wikipedia as an > educational tool (aka, supervised editing), though more often in user-space > than article-space. For example, see: > https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Schools > <https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Schools> > > Best, > Rae > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > User:Vermont <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Vermont> on Wikimedia > projects > they/them/theirs (why pronouns matter > <https://www.mypronouns.org/what-and-why>) > > > On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 6:43 PM Neurodivergent Netizen > <idoh.idreamofhor...@gmail.com <mailto:idoh.idreamofhor...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> I think that SEWP was created like it is, partly by fear of creating a >> project openly directed to children, and I'm afraid it precisely make it not >> so compelling for them. > > I think the solution is to make the Simple Wikipedia more appealable to kids, > or at least more well-known to them and their parents, and not have a > separate Wikipedia. Primarily, we could probably do a better job of promoting > Simple internally, and it most likely wouldn’t hurt to double the SEO. > >> They may be a way to promote a existing (or to be launched) wiki >> encyclopedia for children, to "use the momentum of Wikipedia to make it >> easier to discover" > > You can’t use the momentum of Wikipedia to promote a non-WMF wiki, when we > have trouble getting momentum going on the WMF wikis that exist. > > From, > I dream of horses > She/her > > > > > >> On Jun 23, 2022, at 2:59 PM, Mathias Damour <mathias.dam...@gmx.fr >> <mailto:mathias.dam...@gmx.fr>> wrote: >> >> Ok, I did read your message too fast... I nevertheless know Simple English >> Wikipedia. >> >> I think that SEWP was created like it is, partly by fear of creating a >> project openly directed to children, and I'm afraid it precisely make it not >> so compelling for them. >> >> > The thing is, as the main English Wikipedia more specialist, and therefore >> > more complicated, we have a Simple English Wikipedia that we shouldn’t let >> > languish in the hopes of creating a children's encyclopedia out of whole >> > cloth. >> >> Actually, Vikidia in english does exist, with 4,035 articles ! >> https://en.vikidia.org <https://en.vikidia.org/> >> Unfortunately, the developpment of the wikis for children is very uneven, >> and it seems hard to overcome the delay when they were launched later one >> than another or missed their launch. For exemple I know about two or three >> unlucky attempts in german before Klexikon* (and I beleive German had or has >> a very good potential for such a project - demography and cultural ground >> favourable to children participation and their freedom of information). Yet >> it was in Dutch that Wikikids was launched early and is now quite big and >> active. >> >> They may be a way to promote a existing (or to be launched) wiki >> encyclopedia for children, to "use the momentum of Wikipedia to make it >> easier to discover" as just said Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga, but somewhat >> different from the way they chooses on the Basque Wikipedia : That would be >> to let appear the kid equivalent article in the "In other projects" section. >> >> Or maybe a very active work both in promotion and gathering a substantial >> set of core articles (picking the best/most usefull, most viewed articles >> from several kids wikis and Simple English Wikipedia, translating...) >> >> ************** >> *- the original "Wikikids" proposal as a Wikimedia project was made by >> german speaking wikipedians in early 2005 : >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2005-January/015108.html >> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2005-January/015108.html> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikikids&oldid=89757 >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikikids&oldid=89757> but was >> chilled down by the reactions on this list... >> - Grundschulwiki was launched in december 2005, it still exists but is >> restricted to works done in primary classroom and therefore is not much >> developped : >> https://grundschulwiki.zum.de/index.php?title=Hauptseite&dir=prev&action=history >> >> <https://grundschulwiki.zum.de/index.php?title=Hauptseite&dir=prev&action=history> >> - a 2010 project ended as they were told to request a Simple German >> Wikipedia and then denied to open it: >> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Redaktion_Medizin/Projekt_Kinderleicht >> >> <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Redaktion_Medizin/Projekt_Kinderleicht> >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Simple_German_3 >> >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Simple_German_3> >> Meanwhile Wikikids.nl <http://wikikids.nl/> was launched in March 2006 and >> Vikidia in French in November 2006. >> >> >> Envoyé: jeudi 23 juin 2022 à 21:15 >> De: "Neurodivergent Netizen" <idoh.idreamofhor...@gmail.com >> <mailto:idoh.idreamofhor...@gmail.com>> >> À: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> <mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>> >> Objet: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia >> The English Wikipedia has a “plain language” wikipedia, the Simple English >> Wikipedia. It’s targeted not only towards children, but also towards people >> who aren’t fluent in English and/or have learning disabilities. A few >> “internet hack” memes say “If you can’t understand the Wikipedia article, >> change en to simple!” Basically, the English Wikipedia community has two >> very general-to-slightly-specialist encyclopedias. >> >> Unfortunately, I’ve witnessed in years past that the Simple English >> Wikipedias’ activity level was, shall we say, wanting. I hope that’s >> changed; I suspect kids would enjoy learning to research for the purpose of >> writing on Simple before moving on to the so-called “real” English >> Wikipedia, but that might require some assistance that might not always >> exist offline. I think Simple would certainly be a good place to start >> making Wikipedia more accessible to 8-10 year olds. >> >> From, >> I dream of horses >> She/her >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 23, 2022, at 11:40 AM, Mathias Damour <mathias.dam...@gmx.fr >> <mailto:mathias.dam...@gmx.fr>> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> De: "WereSpielChequers" <werespielchequ...@gmail.com >> <mailto:werespielchequ...@gmail.com>> >> A childrens' encyclopaedia written for nine year olds would surely be very >> different than one written for thirteen year olds. And content that parents >> of fourteen year olds thought was age inappropriate in Alabama might be >> thought appropriate or even bowdlerised by parents of ten year olds in >> London. >> >> In other words, are you sure that one single childrens' encyclopaedia is the >> answer to either the problem of reading age or age appropriate content? >> >> There is one thing that is sure, that "one single childrens' encyclopaedia" >> is a great step for children (and often teenagers and older people) than >> having just Wikipedia available, and they love it. >> >> Where I think that Wikipedia could and should change re this is in our use >> of jargon. To my mind a "general interest" english language encyclopaedia >> should be written in plain English. I suspect other language versions have >> similar issues. Perhaps if we focussed more on this we would make it easier >> for those who wish to create childrens' versions. >> >> Yet there is not realistic hopes that the language of Wikipedia will change >> to be easier. That wouldn't address the fact the articles on general >> subjects are among the longest ones. >> It sounds a bit weird that a content for 12 yo would not fit well for a 8 >> yo, and then that Wikipedia could fit to children. The "reading level" of >> articles on Vikidia is not perfectly homogenous, nor their developpment is. >> They can be usefull for adult beginners on a subject just as a child can >> prefer Wikipedia on a subject he's fond of and allready informed. >> That was developped in this post (in english): >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids/Documentation_and_Vikidia >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids/Documentation_and_Vikidia> >> >> >> De: "Ziko van Dijk" <zvand...@gmail.com> <mailto:zvand...@gmail.com> >> Ideally, one would have >> * an encyclopedia for the very young, that parents read to them, >> * an encyclopedia for the 8 to 13 year olds, the target group for many >> of the existing kids' wikis, >> * an encyclopedia for juvelines, 14 to 18 years >> * an encyclopedia for everyone; this is what "regular Wikipedia" should be, >> * an encyclopedia for specialists; this is what "regular Wikipedia" >> actually develops into. >> And maybe encylopedias for people with specific challenges such as >> dyslexia. >> >> Most language don't have a single wiki encyclopedia for children or an >> under-developped one. So I guess that's not realistic nor wise to wish such >> a division in this work. So let's work on the allready allready launched >> ones ! (Especially the one of the Vikidia family of course ;) see >> https://www.vikidia.org/ <https://www.vikidia.org/> ) >> >> You actually do not need millions of articles for a good encyclopedia, some >> thousand well written articles are enough. >> >> Vikidia in French and Wikikids in Dutch are by far the biggest wiki >> encyclopedias for children, with about 35000 articles each. Yet young reader >> on the Vikidia's guestbook still ask for "more content", which certainly >> mean both enought developped articles (not just a few lines) and more >> subjects. So yes, we need, if not millions of articles, at least several >> dozens of thousands articles. >> Of course, we see that (as everywhere) 20 % of the articles make more than >> 80 % of the pageviews. But you can't really guess in advance which subject >> will be in the top 20 %. >> >> De: "Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga" <galder...@hotmail.com >> <mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>> >> About Txikipedia: the age range is 8-12, but is more 10-12 than 8-9. The >> problem is that some of the writers are 8-9 years old, so their content is >> quite simple. >> >> (...) >> >> When I read French Vikidia I think that most of the contents are still too >> difficult for 8-9 years old students, but French education system maybe more >> advanced in some issues. Or it might be that Vikidia is centered in 8-13 >> years old, and 13 years old readers are way better reading and understanding >> texts. Klexikon seems very suitable, but it's logical, since it is written >> by educators, and not children or whoever wants to write. When we make >> courses with university students who will be the next primary school >> teachers, they write longer articles, but not necessarily better. The main >> goal there is to explain things as easily as possible, and not granting >> anything for known. We advise them to write shorter sentences, without >> dependencies and to explain all technical concepts inline, if possible. >> Also, they normally add boxes of "did you know?" so they can add a layer for >> curious children. >> >> Just as on Wikipedia, article don't have only one author. That makes them >> better, more accessible and accurate. >> >> You can't just test an average child to write on such a wiki to tell if >> children and teenagers are able to participate to a wiki encyclopedia for >> several reasons : >> the 1% rule (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule>) fully apply there (or less than >> 1%) >> regular editors are few but very motivated, >> they typically learn and are engaged for months and years, which is VERY >> different than having been trained to edit for one or two hours. >> A 12 yo with 2 years of participation, or a 15 yo with 3 years of experience >> are often very valuables editors, either as writer of for maintenance and >> community tasks. >> >> Adults as well have to learn to write on Vikidia, be they educators or not. >> Just as it is well know that a journalist or a scientist, which are supposed >> to be skilled is writing articles, often don't fit immediatly with the style >> that is expected on Wikipedia. >> >> Mathias Damour >> [[User:Astirmays]] >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> <mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines> and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l> >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/UHX6EVQUI233NCUHK2HE54HDOYOSSCUB/ >> >> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/UHX6EVQUI233NCUHK2HE54HDOYOSSCUB/> >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org> >> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- >> wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, >> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines> and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/KF426ALI77IUT6X7F6INLSAIBSD66Z2D/ >> >> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/KF426ALI77IUT6X7F6INLSAIBSD66Z2D/> >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org>_______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> <mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines> and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l> >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/F67HFO7N7UXQGLCEIZ6YQQWIFKTXAHWD/ >> >> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/F67HFO7N7UXQGLCEIZ6YQQWIFKTXAHWD/> >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > <mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines> and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l> > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/EQNCISRHSAWFWA6WOUYUPCIJGG66ORJQ/ > > <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/EQNCISRHSAWFWA6WOUYUPCIJGG66ORJQ/> > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org > <mailto:wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org>_______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/GEHXTUPBQZ2RYCJPBOCOKOG2FFVSUI6A/ > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
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