Hello, If someone is interested in finding venues for complex and planned discussions, I would suggest that they look through the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Recurring_online_international_meetings. By the way, some meetings have translation capacities and/or may be conducted primarily in a language other than English, such as French.
Christophe, if you're interested more specifically in discussing readership / consumption metrics, I would suggest: 1. You could reach out to *The Signpost* to ask about where to place a monthly overview of metrics. This could be a good fit for the "News and notes" regular section. I suggest posting in *The Signpost'*s Newsroom talk page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Newsroom. If you're interested in writing more in-depth reports about metrics than could fit in N&N, then you could also volunteer for those on the same Newsroom talk page. And translations of the same material may be wanted by *Signpost-*like publications in other language editions of Wikipedia for republication. The Diff blog might also be a place to publish written commentary, although I don't know how much readership the blog gets: https://diff.wikimedia.org. If you're interested in maximizing reach of written material about metrics then you might want to leverage all of the above. and 2. You could contact the organizers of any meetings where you might like to be a presenter, for in-depth and/or recurring discussions of metrics. And if you write material for *The Signpost* or other publications then you may be able to adapt the material for meetings. If you want to go above and beyond, then you could start a new series of meetings that focuses on metrics, but you could potentially reduce the time required for planning and communications by integrating your work into existing meetings which already have organizers who would do some of that work for you. I hope that these suggestions are helpful. Pine🌲 On Wed, Jul 1, 2026 at 12:30 PM Risker via Wikimedia-l < [email protected]> wrote: > I'm sorry that you are disappointed in the response to your thread, > Christophe. In reality, it has received the most engagement of any thread > started in 2026, with 79 comments and 33 participants. Engagement on this > mailing list has dropped significantly from its peak some years ago. In > 2026, we're averaging about a thread a day, and between 30 and 45 > participants a month. Most threads get no response at all. > > The list is mainly used now by those who are making announcements of > events or new tools, or posting links to periodic activity reports. There > continue to be discussion threads such as this, perhaps one or two a > month. None have received anywhere near the level of response that this > thread has had. > > I do not know where the interesting and complex discussions have > gravitated to that we have had in the past on this mailing list. There are > over 2200 subscribers to the mailing list (most of whom have never posted > in any thread on any topic), but as list admin for this mailing list, my > sense is that we have been having more unsubscriptions than subscriptions > for at least the last few years. I'd be interested to know where those > conversations have moved to, as it seems that discussions on meta have > similar issues. > > Risker/Anne > > On Wed, 1 Jul 2026 at 13:15, Christophe Henner via Wikimedia-l < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I'm not sure why I send those emails anymore, it would be much easier if >> people were shouting "we don't care being read" but well. >> >> I would love to start this email with "Good news everyone" but I can't. >> >> Mobile web is -13% this month, And yes global is "only" -1% but like last >> month there are some suspicious desktop activities in some languages. >> Unless... unless we try to estimate growth velocity and hoooo what a >> surprise, it seems to be accelerating. >> >> So we are on a >> >> - best case scenario to lose half of our traffic in 5 years. >> - Avg 2026 velocity trend scenario in 3.4 to 3.7 years >> - So far worst trend in 3 years >> >> And this marks 6 months of those emails and it seems the number of people >> caring are very low. But perhaps I mis reading the empty room ? >> >> PS: yes I still am not using Desktop data too many inconsistencies >> >> -- >> Christophe >> >> >> On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 at 19:04, Strainu via Wikimedia-l < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Folks, this discussion has now turned into the usual "let's talk and >>> decide on the best thing to do". How about we try to grasp the fact that we >>> need to do *all* of the above (+a few hundreds other things, probably), >>> see what works and (very hard for this community) leave unsuccessful ideas >>> die? Even then, we might discover it's not enough and that it's better to >>> focus our energy on some other project. But then we'll be at peace that we >>> have tried something instead of just talking about it. >>> >>> My2c, >>> Strainu >>> >>> >>> În vin., 12 iun. 2026 la 08:12, Gerard Meijssen via Wikimedia-l < >>> [email protected]> a scris: >>> >>>> Hoi, >>>> We are rich in what we have but we have no idea how to leverage what we >>>> have. Given our ideology we enabled AI by taking all our content. They take >>>> everything else and often provide information we have never served. For >>>> that we need contributors to our projects. For that we can no longer rely >>>> only on Wikipedia. >>>> >>>> When I edit, it is based on what I find of interest. I blog about it >>>> and I just posted another blogpost [1]. >>>> >>>> When we are to survive, we should be honest about what we have, its >>>> strengths and its weaknesses. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Gerard >>>> >>>> >>>> [1] >>>> https://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com/2026/06/about-screw-worms-and-plague-with.html >>>> >>>> On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 at 15:18, Christophe Henner via Wikimedia-l < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, it's your painful neighborhood friend Christophe. >>>>> >>>>> Today, an amazing article on diff : >>>>> https://diff.wikimedia.org/2026/06/11/wikipedias-account-creation-process-is-broken/ >>>>> >>>>> short story long, community is shrinking almost 6% YoY. >>>>> >>>>> Traffic is collapsing. >>>>> Editing community is shrinking. >>>>> >>>>> The odd thing now is that we are almost at the stage when inaction by >>>>> fear of dissent/drama/whatever is costing us more than action with >>>>> dissent. >>>>> Mauve that's the good news? >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Christophe >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 at 15:28, Gnangarra via Wikimedia-l < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> perhaps we use stealth within article by inserting "from wikipedia >>>>>> *" * at the end of paragraphs, By saying "from Wikipedia" in white >>>>>> text on white background the LLMs will pick it up and included it in >>>>>> their >>>>>> responses as normal text. We should not use the term AI because llm are >>>>>> not >>>>>> intelligent they vacuum up the work of others,Then perhaps we could >>>>>> consider a false layer so the LLMs cant see the physical image, but the >>>>>> individual can down load images directly from commons using the size >>>>>> specific options this is a feature many photosite use to protect LLMs >>>>>> building from the individual photographers effort. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 at 20:19, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga via >>>>>> Wikimedia-l <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Let's take a little bit of perspective: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> People don't read Encyclopedias. They never did. People look up >>>>>>> things in Encyclopedias. Historically, they bought them, even with some >>>>>>> fancy wardrobes designed for showcasing the status of being an >>>>>>> encyclopedia-owner, but very few people took the time to actually read >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> encyclopedia itself. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> People don't read Wikipedia, mainly because it's impossible to read >>>>>>> all of it. We have done the largest knowledge project in the History of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> Humanity. We should be proud of that, but we can't expect anyone to read >>>>>>> all of it in a lifetime. Most of our visits were for searching for short >>>>>>> facts, like what's the actor in this series, when was born Jane Doe and >>>>>>> doing small research on a topic they just watched on TV. There were a >>>>>>> few >>>>>>> that actually read the topics, researched, fell into rabbit holes and >>>>>>> appreciated the whole thing they were reading. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now this very casual fact search comes from LLMs, Google Search and >>>>>>> even Wikidata powered knowledge boxes. So, the peak of visits we had in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> past is having that information in other ways, mostly from us. >>>>>>> Indirectly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There's a decline, and it's going to be worse in the future, and we >>>>>>> must wake up, as the topic of this message claims. There are communities >>>>>>> doing it, innovating with multimedia, interactivity, new audiences, or >>>>>>> storytelling. There are communities rejecting it. The problem is if the >>>>>>> WMF >>>>>>> BoT is going to wake up and take the risks that some communities are >>>>>>> already taking or just reject any innovation. There are many paths to >>>>>>> take, >>>>>>> and we won't agree on which is the good one, but doing nothing is not >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> best one. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Have a nice weekend, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Galder >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> *From:* Gerard Meijssen via Wikimedia-l < >>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 5, 2026 1:14 PM >>>>>>> *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List <[email protected]> >>>>>>> *Cc:* Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]> >>>>>>> *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikipedia at 25: A Wake-Up Call (essay) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hoi, >>>>>>> When the numbers drop, there is a need for another public. For me >>>>>>> YouTube is an inspiration to work on Wikidata information.. I blogged >>>>>>> about >>>>>>> how it can gain us a different public.. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com/2026/06/watching-informative-youtubes-with.html >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, 5 Jun 2026 at 09:08, Christophe Henner via Wikimedia-l < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi this is my irregular email to try to get more widespread >>>>>>> reactions and engagement and discussion from volunteers to board of >>>>>>> trustees. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On global mobile traffic, after a -6.83% between May 2025 and May >>>>>>> 2024, we're shattering records with a nice -18.27% between 2026 and >>>>>>> 2025. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Oh yes, data may be dirty. So let's say it's even half of that it's >>>>>>> still a -10%. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Christophe why are you not using Desktop data": historically >>>>>>> desktop data has proven quite unreliable for many reasons (and this week >>>>>>> the chinese wikipedia desktop outburst is surprising and makes desktop >>>>>>> data >>>>>>> hard to read (on top of other outbursts). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So when we start playing with the -10% to 20% year over year, shall >>>>>>> we start mobilizing? Or we just all grab mojitos and virgin mojitos and >>>>>>> look at the collapse? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Oh hey if it wasn't clear before, the one body that can muster >>>>>>> ressources to mobilize our movement is the board of trustees. >>>>>>> Every day we are not mobilizing is your decision. >>>>>>> Every day you are not engaging publicly in those decision is your >>>>>>> decision. >>>>>>> Every day... I could make a long list you get the idea. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Right now the legacy you're building is a -20% trend leading to >>>>>>> collapse legacy. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know this is hard to read, I know this may trigger a defensive >>>>>>> reaction. But time for tiptoeing around topics and problems is long >>>>>>> gone. >>>>>>> We need swift and radical and unifying actions. If we are to go through >>>>>>> this situation we need collective action not inaction. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -18.27% YoY on mobile : >>>>>>> https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/all-projects/reading/total-page-views/normal|bar|2021-11-07~2026-06-05|(access)~mobile-app*mobile-web+agent~user|monthly >>>>>>> <https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/all-projects/reading/total-page-views/normal%7Cbar%7C2021-11-07~2026-06-05%7C(access)~mobile-app*mobile-web+agent~user%7Cmonthly> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Christophe >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, 5 May 2026 at 10:26, Tomasz Ganicz via Wikimedia-l < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is what almost all universities around the world are doing but >>>>>>> in professional way.The issue is that regular teaching needs regular >>>>>>> time >>>>>>> commitment of qualified teachers which is hard to organize on voluntary >>>>>>> model. Also in order to maintain minimal quality of teaching you need a >>>>>>> system of checking teachers qualifications and skills. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz >>>>>>> http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek >>>>>>> http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> pon., 4 maj 2026, 15:22 użytkownik Felipe Schenone via Wikimedia-l < >>>>>>> [email protected]> napisał: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi! As we know, Wikimedia's mission isn't to build an encyclopedia >>>>>>> (that's Wikipedia's mission) but rather "a world in which every single >>>>>>> human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge". Perhaps the >>>>>>> new >>>>>>> landscape will slowly strip Wikipedia of its leading role in the >>>>>>> Wikimedia >>>>>>> movement, and perhaps (hopefully) some other project will take over. I >>>>>>> agree with Chris in that our core strength is our community, and I also >>>>>>> agree with James in that writing tertiary sources is becoming outdated. >>>>>>> How >>>>>>> can we keep striving for our vision, while making the most of our >>>>>>> strength >>>>>>> (the community) but through a project that doesn't involve writing >>>>>>> tertiary >>>>>>> sources? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here's an idea: Wikiversity could become so much more than what it >>>>>>> currently is. It could become a real "online university", multilingual >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> global, where real-time courses with real humans are taught (as well as >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> asynchronous courses that already exist today). And not just courses, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> eventually entire university programs that award real degrees. I'm sure >>>>>>> our >>>>>>> community is filled with excellent teachers, academics and experts that >>>>>>> could lead such courses in many languages, as well as many others that >>>>>>> could support them in other ways (answering questions, preparing reading >>>>>>> material, exercises, exams, etc). We'd need to develop and integrate >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> software like Zoom or Meet, and much more, of course, but that's beyond >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> point, as we could start with existing software now, and develop better >>>>>>> tools as we go along. Humans teaching humans, would be a good summary of >>>>>>> the idea. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I could digress for a while, but I might be delusional, so I'll stop >>>>>>> here. However, if anyone supports or would like to talk, I'd be happy to >>>>>>> continue on-wiki (User:Sophivorus). Cheers! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, May 4, 2026 at 7:47 AM AcDc CluvR via Wikimedia-l < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Christophe. Tnx for writing this! I used to be member of the >>>>>>> board, chapter, moderator, arbitration committee ... User Dolledre on >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> wiki's, mostly nl.wiki. In my opinion crawling 'our' data should not be >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> darn easy for AI models. Willing to block them by hand if they keep >>>>>>> hallucinating on 'our' data. Interrogating like 4 of them daily, mainly >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> how they work. Do know how to lead them towards total confusion. Even if >>>>>>> Wikipedia could develop the best AI code in the world, we would still be >>>>>>> sharing it. It's the paradox to sweat out till humanity is either >>>>>>> hallucinating as a whole either returning till mental sanity. Kind >>>>>>> regards. >>>>>>> D. PS: Want a free image of a fox eating a banana in my kitchen? ;-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Op za 10 jan 2026 om 00:41 schreef Christophe Henner < >>>>>>> [email protected]>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I struggled with the object, the most honest one would be "Last exit >>>>>>> before irrelevance" but that would be a bit violent. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, Wikipedia turns 25 next week. I've been here for over twenty of >>>>>>> those years, including stints chairing Wikimedia France and the >>>>>>> Foundation >>>>>>> Board. And honestly? I'm worried. Scared to be honnest. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Over the last years, I've been regularly crunching data and sharing >>>>>>> on different channels my worries. But in the last few weeks I decided to >>>>>>> make a much more structured "essay" of my findings >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since 2016, the internet nearly doubled in size. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Our page views? Down. New editor sign-ups? Down 36%. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The people keeping this thing running are working harder than ever, >>>>>>> but there are fewer of them every year. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wrote it all up: the numbers, what I think went wrong, what I >>>>>>> think we need to do about it. Fair warning: it's long, it's opinionated, >>>>>>> and some of it will probably make you mad. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Here it is: *https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Schiste/what-now >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not trying to be doom and gloom for the sake of it. I genuinely >>>>>>> believe we have maybe two years to make some hard calls about AI, about >>>>>>> money, about who we're actually serving. After that, the window closes >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> we become irrelevant. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Could be wrong. Hope I am. But I'd rather we have this argument now >>>>>>> than wish we had later. Well I'd rather we had this argument two or four >>>>>>> years ago, but now we will make do. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Read it, tell me where I'm off base. Let's argue and debate. That's >>>>>>> what talk pages are for, right? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> PS: Foundation board mailing list is bcc'ed, change cannot happen >>>>>>> without their commitment. And fast. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Christophe >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>>>>> guidelines at: >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>>> Public archives at >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/X3SQ2WA7QF2XS56XV2EOPDPUZ6UQPCR4/ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>>>>> guidelines at: >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>>> Public archives at >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/TYXFRDYSUH3WUYM5P4MADNQI42NZXWTX/ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>>>>> guidelines at: >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>>> Public archives at >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/UD4JDQEN5P24GA7DYIWMB5NKVO5MCO2Y/ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>>>>> guidelines at: >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>>> Public archives at >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/DIGXAKYMSR56ETXSHKSG6CIONMEM56RU/ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>>>>> guidelines at: >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>>> Public archives at >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/WJ6VRJAZTRYTPPN44K2NSHBO5WSWLGBF/ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>>>>> guidelines at: >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>>> Public archives at >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/T4FFHABPP5FUZ556732UXZ6I4SZOZMK5/ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Boodarwun >>>>>> Gnangarra >>>>>> 'ngany dabakarn koorliny arn boodjera dardon nlangan Nyungar >>>>>> koortabodjar' >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>>>> guidelines at: >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>> Public archives at >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/Q5GJK3SHDMV6STAHD6VRWM47KDWES5ZV/ >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>>> guidelines at: >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>> Public archives at >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/2QL4BSONCQYOAESTPUQB25KOTIRIFIWJ/ >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing 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