On 7 March 2012 13:11, Anirudh Bhati <anirudh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Hisham <his...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> Nothing is conducted solely by India Program - and hence I said
>> "supported."  Everything is conducted by the community - sometimes under
>> the aegis of the Chapter and sometimes independently.  The support that we
>> have provided varies - from getting the actual event fixed up to providing
>> presentation material to interested community members to participating in
>> these events.
>>
>
> Can this be clearly specified in the report?  That is more helpful than
> simply "supported".  For instance, when you say "Supported the community
> to get a venue in Guwahati University", it would help us understand more if
> you could tell us how.
>
>  On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 12:45 PM, CherianTinu Abraham <
> tinucher...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Pranav,
>> In India, it is extremely difficult to hairline separate who has done
>> which event. - Chapter, Community and WMF India Programs.
>>
>
> I agree it's not possible to do that, but it is entirely possible to list
> out the work done in specific.  This enhances our accountability and
> transparency towards the community.
>
>
>> Let us take the case of the Trichy event, the request came to a community
>> member Rsrikanth to the chapter. Nitika was actively involved along with me
>> and Naveen. The chapter signed the MoU and supplied some goodies. Nitika
>> was actively involved in coaching Sohan, a chapter member and Rsrikanth.
>> One must not also forget that both Hisham & Nitika are also chapter
>> members.
>
>
> Fact: Nitika is a paid employee of the WMF India Programs and is not a
> chapter/community volunteer.
>
>
>>
>> Another event in Chennai (Jaya eng college) , where Subha led, his travel
>> expenses was reimbursed by the Chapter, Subha is a Chapter SIG Chair .. The
>> event is supported by Hisham & Nitika too. Subha is also an India Programs
>> executive.
>>
>
> Fact:  Subhashish, former volunteer, and now paid consultant with India
> Programs.
>
I am still a volunteer when it comes to anything which involves my
participation as a community member, involvement with the WMF doesn't stop
being a volunteer :)

>
>
>>
>> I actively organize Bangalore Meetups and support several others ..
>> Should I be worrying whether I am doing as a chapter member, board member
>> or a community member?
>>
>
> By a matter of principle, chapter and community volunteers are just...
> volunteers.  Paid consultants are hired to executive specific programs, and
> hence the results of their work and reports should be presented with
> clarity.  Simply "supporting" something does not clarify the extent of
> their involvement.
>
>
>> As with Assam meetup recently, coordinated by Shiju, some of the expenses
>> were met from a personal grant from the Foundation to me & Shiju.
>>
>> There was a recent Malayalam Wiki Academy in Bangalore organised by
>> Malayalam Community. Some of them are also Chapter members. People like me
>> and Naveen actively helped the event ..Are we doing as chapter board member
>> or community member? We don't really know.. But we are just genuinely
>> helping the movement, with worrying about what capacity we are doing it.
>>
>
> I don't think it's a good idea to separate the chapter and the community.
>  The chapter is a membership-based organization and by definition an
> umbrella organization which represents the community.  There is no reason
> for differentiation as long as it is volunteer work done by a chapter
> member.
>
>
>>
>> The various academies that we do, some of the requests comes directly to
>> the chapter, community or India programs, but each supporting each other in
>> different capacities.
>>
>> Now Noopur is a GLAM Champion, Chapter member and Delhi SIG Chair and
>> also part of Chapter Communications Team. She now also heads the
>> Communication & PR for the India Programs.
>>
>> As I explained, it is difficult to separate the contributions of
>> different entities or individuals for the Wikimedia  movement in India.
>>
>> IMHO, we should be only concerned about the outcomes of the event and not
>> who gets the credit.
>>
>
> Even though the possibility of interfacing each other is high for
> different entities and groups of volunteers working in India, there is a
> need for differentiation and it is a question which cannot be avoided.  The
> volunteers who work on their pet-projects while not being associated with
> any of the entities are not expected to be as accountable as (i) the
> chapter which receives or may receive grants from the Wikimedia Foundation
> and donations from individuals and organizations in the country AND (ii)
> the WMF India Programs which is run by multiple paid consultants.
>
> So I don't see why we shouldn't care about differentiation, or why it may
> be an undesirable thing to want to differentiate.  Ultimately we all want
> results, yes, but we also need to understand causality because there are
> significant amount of funds involved.  We need to differentiate because
> there are different degrees of accountability involved both with the
> chapter, the WMF India Programs and the volunteer who works with a grant.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
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--
Subha
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