This is the sort of discussion that should be had on-wiki, just to arrive
at some clarity about the fundamental issues.

I have raised the topic on Jimbo's talk page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#Replacing_OTRS_with_a_commercial_consultancy_service

Andreas


On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Thomas Morton
<[email protected]>wrote:

> On 3 October 2012 12:51, Thomas Dalton <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 3 October 2012 12:26, Thomas Morton <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> > (starting a new topic as this is a little wider than the original
>> thread,
>> > hope that is OK)
>> >
>> >> I think it is clear that just letting OTRS handle it doesn't
>> >> really work and people need more support than just an email address
>> >> they can send things to and get back a lecture on Wikipedia policy and
>> >> procedure,
>> >
>> >
>> > Well, respectfully I disagree - at least in part.
>> >
>> > OTRS very often works. It is because of the work of OTRS volunteers
>> there
>> > aren't more news articles featuring prominent people who have had
>> little or
>> > no success with Wikipedia!
>>
>> Sorry, I shouldn't have said it doesn't work. I should have said it
>> often doesn't work. It often does, but there are plenty of times when
>> it doesn't. Don't forget the large number of cases which don't even
>> get as far as someone emailing OTRS because they don't know how to do
>> that.
>>
>
> Sure, that's an issue. I see where you are coming from (the Roth issue in
> large part stemmed from the fact that they ended up contacting the wrong
> place entirely!).
>
>
>> >>
>> >> and judging by the number of attempts we see at setting up
>> >> for-profit consultancy services for this, it would appear there is a
>> >> market. (I think there is probably a market of companies and
>> >> individuals that would be happier paying even if they could get the
>> >> same thing done for free, just because they feel more confident in a
>> >> paid service.)
>> >
>> >
>> > The problem with this approach is  that if you enter into a monetary
>> > contract with someone they have more expectation of a result. I'm not
>> > shouting down the idea outright - but it is much harder to turn around
>> to
>> > someone and say "I'm sorry, but this content can't be changed" when
>> they are
>> > paying you to do that... :D
>>
>> It's a issue, certainly, but as long as you are completely clear about
>> what it is you are doing I think it can work. The key would be to have
>> an initial meeting where the client explains what it is they want to
>> achieve and you tell them whether that is actually within Wikipedia
>> policy. If it isn't, then you don't take it any further. You would
>> only actually try and get changes made if you think there is a good
>> chance of success. (Whether than initial meeting would be chargable or
>> not, I don't know - that's a detail to be worked out.)
>>
>
> Yes, I suppose.
>
> It's not so easy as that, though, speaking as an OTRS regular. One of two
> things can happen with regularity; a seemingly innocuous issue gets blown
> up by editors for no apparent reason, which leads to dramaz. Or, the
> initial concerns appear quite OK, but once you get onboard discussing with
> them it turns out they are more complex and fundamental.
>
> I'm also concerned that the target market consists of mainly two types of
> client:
>
> * One that wants to rewrite large portions of the article
> * One that wants very minor issues fixed ("Please correct this logo", "Our
> CEO has changed", "that source refers to someone else!") etc.
>
> Having an upfront meeting with the latter is not worth it, as this will
> likely take longer than resolving the issue. And the former represents the
> minefield I mentioned.
>
> I also suspect that the En.Wiki community would reject anyone being able
> to do any substantive work on articles under such a scheme.
>
>
>> That sort of thing could be done as well, but I doubt many people want
>> to learn how to navigate the minefield that is Wikipedia just in order
>> to fix a few errors in an article. They just want to pay someone to
>> sort it out.
>>
>
> I am actually thinking along those lines... I'm not talking about editor
> recruitment type things.
>
> But more "hi everyone, these are the Wikipedia policies, and why we have
> them" and then let them loose with a room full of editors who can sit and
> work through specific issues. With the benefit that everyone is at educated
> in at least the rudiments of policy.
>
> Tom
>
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