I don't think that copying comments made on a mailing list over to a proposer's page is exactly the right strategy here, Pine - there's a difference between talking *to* and *about* people and I see that bawolff has done a lovely job of doing some of each, using both channels.
But if your question is really will this feedback from the mailing list get fed back to the scoring committee: Yes, it will be, along with all perspectives we gather from various threads and conversations all over the place. On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Pine W <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Siko, are you planning to copy the relevant comments to the grant > application pages? The Committee will likely want to read them. > > Pine > > > > On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Siko Bouterse <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Echoing Quim's thanks to you, bawolff! And I really appreciate the >> comments >> you've made directly on proposals in past weeks, which does help them >> improve. >> >> Good proposals take time to develop, and I expect that incubating them >> longer in places like IdeaLab, where they can get more advice to help them >> mature, is one way to ensure they contain all info needed for assessing >> them as a grant proposal. I'm not sure this is something we could ever do >> well without the community. >> >> I'm seeing more and more proposals for technical projects in IEG each >> round >> (for the first time, nearly half of the open proposals are for tools). As >> there seems to be increasing interest in using IEG to build tools, I agree >> that we'll want to start thinking about better guidelines for this type of >> proposal in particular. Will keep your suggestions in mind for this, and >> happy to hear more as we work on improving systems each round. >> >> Siko >> >> On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 5:56 AM, Quim Gil <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > Brian, I just want to say Thank You for the time you took going through >> > the proposals and writing this insightful email. CCing Siko because, >> even >> > if you particular comments about certain proposals are interesting, they >> > can be taken as samples, and what really matters are your meta >> observations. >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 7:08 AM, Brian Wolff <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >> On 10/10/14, Patrick Earley <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > *(cross-posted to wikimedia-l)* >> >> > >> >> > Hello all, >> >> > >> >> > For our second round of Individual Engagement Grant applications in >> >> 2014, >> >> > we have a great crop of ideas. Wikimedians have dropped by to offer >> >> > feedback, support, or expertise to some of the proposals, but many >> >> > proposals have not been reviewed by community members. Over half of >> >> these >> >> > proposals involve new tools, new uses of our databases, or have other >> >> > technical elements. Some will be hosted on Labs if approved. >> >> > >> >> > Members of this list may have key insights for our proposers. If >> there >> >> is >> >> > an open proposal that interests you, that you have concerns about, or >> >> that >> >> > involves an area where you have experience or expertise, please drop >> by >> >> the >> >> > proposal page to share your views. This will help the proposers >> better >> >> > hone their strategies, and will assist the IEG Committee in >> evaluating >> >> some >> >> > of these fresh new ideas to improve the Wikimedia projects. Working >> >> with >> >> > an IEG proposal may even inspire you to serve as a project advisor, >> or >> >> to >> >> > propose one of your own for the next cycle! Comments are requested >> >> until >> >> > October 20th. >> >> > >> >> > Tools IEG proposals: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > - IEG/Semi-automatically generate Categories for some small-scale >> & >> >> > medium-scale Wikis >> >> > >> >> > < >> >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Semi-automatically_generate_Categories_for_some_small-scale_%26_medium-scale_Wikis >> >> > >> >> > - IEG/WikiBrainTools >> >> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/WikiBrainTools> >> >> > - IEG/Dedicated Programming Compiler >> >> > >> >> > < >> >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Dedicated_Programming_Compiler >> >> > >> >> > - IEG/Gamified Microcontributions >> >> > < >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Gamified_Microcontributions >> > >> >> > - IEG/Enhance Proofreading for Dutch >> >> > >> >> > < >> >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Enhance_Proofreading_for_Dutch >> >> > >> >> > - IEG/Tamil OCR to recognize content from printed books >> >> > >> >> > < >> >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Tamil_OCR_to_recognize_content_from_printed_books >> >> > >> >> > - IEG/Easy Micro Contributions for Wiki Source >> >> > >> >> > < >> >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Easy_Micro_Contributions_for_Wiki_Source >> >> > >> >> > - IEG/Citation data acquisition framework >> >> > >> >> > < >> >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Citation_data_acquisition_framework >> >> > >> >> > - IEG/Global Watchlist >> >> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Global_Watchlist> >> >> > - IEG/Automated Notability Detection >> >> > >> >> > < >> >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Automated_Notability_Detection >> >> > >> >> > - IEG/Piłsudski Institute of America GLAM-Wiki Scalable Archive >> >> Project >> >> > >> >> > < >> >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Pi%C5%82sudski_Institute_of_America_GLAM-Wiki_Scalable_Archive_Project >> >> > >> >> > - IEG/Revision scoring as a service >> >> > >> >> > < >> >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Revision_scoring_as_a_service> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Full list: >> >> > >> >> > - IEG Grants/Review >> >> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG#ieg-reviewing> >> >> > >> >> > Regards, >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > <[email protected]> >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Patrick Earley >> >> > Community Advocate >> >> > Wikimedia Foundation >> >> > [email protected] >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Wikitech-l mailing list >> >> > [email protected] >> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l >> >> >> >> A lot of these proposals seem poorly written from the perspective of a >> >> technical proposal. Many appear to be more like sales pitches intended >> >> for a non-technical audience (Which I suppose kind of makes sense, the >> >> people who get lots of wikimedians to endorse them, "win"). >> >> >> >> I'm generalizing here, as it seems there's a lot of variation, but >> >> there's a lot of "what I am going to fix", not "how am I going to do >> >> it". They mostly don't have mock-up screenshots for the one's who >> >> propose new user facing things, there is largely no schedule of >> >> milestones, or even concrete minimum viable product specifications. If >> >> they were GSOC proposals, they would largely be rejected gsoc >> >> proposals. >> >> >> >> For example >> >> [[meta:Grants:IEG/Tamil_OCR_to_recognize_content_from_printed_books]] >> >> you can't even tell that they intend to create a website instead of a >> >> desktop app, unless you read the talk page. >> >> >> >> Second, its hard to comment on the appropriateness of scope, since >> >> there's not really any set criteria (That I've seen). In particular >> >> its unclear what is considered an appropriate asking amount for a >> >> given amount of work. For example, >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Global_Watchlist asks for >> >> $7000, which seems excessive to essentially make a user script that >> >> has a for loop to get the user's watchlist on various wikis. That's >> >> the sort of thing which I would expect to take about a week. A very >> >> experienced developer might be able to pull it off in a day provided >> >> the interface elements were minimalist. (Although that proposal has a >> >> small little note about being able to mute/unmute (non-flow) threads >> >> on a per thread basis, which depending where you go with that, could >> >> be the hardest aspect of the project). >> >> >> >> Similarly, people asking thousands of dollars so they can get >> >> computers to test the user script in different OS environments seems >> >> like an odd use of resources. No libraries available that have both >> >> Mac and windows available (Guess there's a lot of libs that only have >> >> windows computers). Even still, is multiple OS's really necessary to >> >> do browser testing? Almost all modern browsers are cross platform. >> >> Even IE can be run in wine on linux afaik. >> >> >> >> Then there's proposals like >> >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Dedicated_Programming_Compiler >> >> , >> >> where it appears the grant requester isn't entirely familiar with the >> >> meaning of the technical jargon that is in use in the proposal. Which >> >> should raise instant red flags. >> >> >> >> Now that I've complained a lot, I should say its not all bad. >> >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Revision_scoring_as_a_service >> >> for example is a fairly well written proposal. >> >> >> >> Hmm, not entirely sure where I was going with all this. Looking at all >> >> the proposals takes time. Maybe there should be some sort of minimum >> >> quality standard (e.g. Having a roadmap) to advance to the next step >> >> of proposal selection, and only ask the larger Wikimedia community to >> >> review those proposals that were sanity checked to have at least >> >> enough information on them that one could reasonably evaluate the >> >> proposal. >> >> >> >> --bawolff >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Wikitech-l mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Quim Gil >> > Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation >> > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Siko Bouterse >> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. >> >> [email protected] >> >> *Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the >> sum of all knowledge. * >> *Donate <https://donate.wikimedia.org> or click the "edit" button today, >> and help us make it a reality!* >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikitech-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l >> > > -- Siko Bouterse Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. [email protected] *Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. * *Donate <https://donate.wikimedia.org> or click the "edit" button today, and help us make it a reality!* _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
