> > But there is a problem: we have a capacity limit of 200 people. In hackthons (either Wikimedia hackathon or Wikimania hackthon days) there is not always a large enough hall for all the devs, and people may sit in different rooms. So the capability limit can be soften a bit - this could be a simultaneous event in multiple different locations where the main part take in SF, but Wikimedia chapters may organize in the same time smaller scale events (it could be even 1 room +pizza ++beer).
We could set the goal of selecting (top down) a small number of product > challenges > One possible goal: Citations Citation support in MW is very hacky - based on hacks EVERYWHERE from parsoid, VE, ContentTranslation (tech) and template/modules (where every wiki have its own version/some version imported from enwiki...) I can imagine rewriting the Extension:Cite from scratch (Extension:CiteV2), with more structured data support (similar to in sense to Brion''s idea from Wikimania Mexico) - then the Wikidata support + importing /generating bibliographic data in wikidata (or other Wikibase repo?) takes part in Berlin where there is strong pywikibot/WD community, while Parsoid+VE+core/extension support for Cite takes place in SF. On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Quim Gil <[email protected]> wrote: > Thank you for starting this conversation, Brion! > > Let me share the point where Rachel Farrand (Summit organizer) and I > (Summit budget owner) find ourselves, after some conversations. > > GOALS > > First we need to define the goals of the Summit, then we can talk about the > target audiences and the structure of the event that will help achieving > these goals. The Summit and its goal have been a moving target over the > years, as you can deduce from the many changes of names & goals. [0] > > Widening the audience was a main goal last year. This is why we renamed it > to Wikimedia (not MediaWiki) Developer Summit, and we invited developers of > tools, templates, bots, mobile apps, the MediaWiki Stakeholders Group, and > also non-Wikimedia users of our APIs. It was a half-backed thought that > received half-backed support that unsurprisingly brought half-backed > results. > > Still, even if we would have done better, "widening the audience" is not a > goal per se. What should we widen the audience for? Here is an idea. > > What if the Summit would be product driven, with architecture and the rest > following that drive. All we are here to offer better products to our > users. All the technical discussions make more sense when there is a clear > product vision to be either supported or contested with reality checks. > > We have a Wikimedia Foundation Product department and also a Community > Wishlist where the communities push for product improvements. We could set > the goal of selecting (top down) a small number of product challenges and > invite whoever needs to be involved to push them forward. Then we can leave > plenty of free space for other topics that participants want to push > (bottom up). > > That "we" should be representative and effective in order to define a list > of goals in a few days (we need to open registration asap). It should be > possible to get a short list from the Product and Technology departments, > the Community Tech team (representing the Community Wishlist) and the > Architecture Committee. Then again these product goals cannot be too > surprising, since they are supposed to be prominent in discussions and > plans already now. > > > AUDIENCE > > If the Summit will focus on product goals, then it is evident that software > architects and core developers will not be enough to achieve it. Product > managers, UX designers, researchers, [add other roles here], and maybe even > selected users/editors must be invited too in order to push the selected > product improvements forward. > > But there is a problem: we have a capacity limit of 200 people. The > Foundation alone could basically fill the event if we don't set limits, The > Summit is immediately followed by the Wikimedia Foundation AllHands annual > meeting. The Summit is actually the successor of Tech Days, an AllHands for > all people who worked in tech at the Foundation. > > We do have some travel sponsorship budget for volunteers, and I believe we > could get more participants among non-Wikimedia users of Wikimedia APIs and > MediaWiki if we really want to target them. However, we simply cannot go > for a big outreach while keeping an expectation of general attendance from > Foundation's Product and Technology departments. > > Maybe we should go back to the invitation-only model with the capacity > limit of 200 people in mind, and the representation of target audiences we > want to get. For instance, we could set priorities on those directly > involved in the product improvements selected (and that means that we need > to select them asap) and define a % limit for Foundation participants. > > Basically, we would need to make some tough calls to define main goals and > main audiences for the Summit in 2017. Successful events (just like > successful products) are often the result of tough calls, so no surprise > here. > > PS1: someone asked about lessons learned --> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Developer_ > Summit_2016/Lessons_Learned > > PS2: Rob suggested that a single email thread is not the best channel to > solve this complex discussion and I agree with him... but I didn't want to > kill this interesting thread either. Please note that the canonical places > for Summit discussion are > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Developer_Summit_2017 and > the > related Phabricator project task > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/board/2192/ > > [0] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Developer_ > Summit_2017#Previous_summits > > On Sun, Sep 4, 2016 at 9:17 PM, Risker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > This topic is a great read, and as a non-developer who's interested in > > technical matters, I was quite excited to see this proposal. > > > > It might be an idea to identify one or two specific topics that may be > > particularly amenable to outreach to users outside of the "usual > suspects" > > who attend the Dev Summit, and then actively recruit interested parties. > It > > is quite possible that scholarships may be required to ensure a broader > > (i.e., more than English North Americans) participation, so this may be a > > budgetary issue that needs to be weighed against using those same > > scholarships for active developers. I think some of the comments on this > > thread are correct, that it's likely that at least some of the > discussions > > at the Dev Summit will be too esoteric for non-developers. On the other > > hand, there was a point where I only understood about 3% of what was > posted > > on this mailing list, and I think I can quite honestly say I'm all the > way > > up to 25% now. People do learn by assimilation. :-) > > > > A similar process can be done with Wikimania - which has the added > > advantage of already attracting hundreds of community members for other > > reasons. I'd suggest that a special "developer/community day" be held in > > conjunction with the hackathon. While it's likely you'd still need to > > offer scholarships, in most cases it would be the cost of an additional > > day's accommodation/per diem rather than flight/accommodation/per diem, > > because you would target people who are already planning to attend > > Wikimania. I expect that the 2017 Wikimania will be one of the largest > > ones, since it is in North America and easily accessible by just about > > everyone, so there is likely to be a large target audience. You might > want > > to work with Marc-Andre (who is the Wikimania Convenor) to see how this > > could be accommodated. > > > > Thanks Brion for raising the topic - and thanks to everyone in this > thread, > > you've all taken this idea to heart and recognized the value of user > > input. > > > > Risker/Anne > > > > > > > > On 1 September 2016 at 13:12, Brion Vibber <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > The last couple years we've done a big MediaWiki Dev Summit in January, > > > around the time of the Wikimedia Foundation all-hands meeting. > > Invitations > > > have been fairly broad to known developers, but there's a very strong > > > feeling that newbies, non-technical people, and in general *the people > > > MediaWiki is created and maintained for* are not welcome. > > > > > > I think we should change this. > > > > > > I would really like a broader MediaWiki Dev Summit that asks our users > to > > > participate, and asks "developers" to interact with them to prioritize > > and > > > work on things that really matter to them. > > > > > > I want template authors, Lua module authors, template users, power > > editors, > > > folks working on the lines of defense for vandalism patrol and copyvio > > > checking. I want people with opinions on discussion systems. I want > > people > > > who have been editing for years and have experience with what works and > > > what doesn't. I want people who wish they could edit but have a bad > > > experience when they try, and want to share that with us so we can help > > > make it better. > > > > > > Thoughts? > > > > > > -- brion > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > -- > Quim Gil > Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil > _______________________________________________ > Wikitech-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
