Okay, in all seriousness, ArbCom does work. It does a good /enough/ job,
when you weigh it against the alternatives. I'm not really sure how, at
the sorts of scales we're looking at, anything would do much better.
While our technical communities operate on a much smaller scale, this
still shows us a model we can learn from. Because while ArbCom isn't
great - most users would not say they actually trust it and a lot of
arbs probably would in particular say how bad it is - the thing is, it
does do quite a bit right. In light of the incidents we've had thus far
in technical spaces, we should really be learning from that.
-I
On 08/08/18 20:15, Isarra Yos wrote:
Nope! But this just seems /worse/ in practice.
-I
On 08/08/18 20:12, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
Are you suggesting that ArbCom does a good job of maintaining a collegial,
harassment-free environment on English Wikipedia? Just wanted to double-check ;)
On Aug 8, 2018, at 1:02 PM, Isarra Yos<zhoris...@gmail.com> wrote:
On other projects, we have community-elected groups among whom we see oversight
in the form of new members upon subsequent elections who can audit the
backlogs, and who conduct their primary functions in the open and issue clear
statements when a matter does indeed merit not discussing openly, using their
discretion as to when to apply privacy and similar concerns specifically.
Generally speaking, most users actually trust their discretion in those matters.
Nothing about /this/ particular issue appears to merit any such concern, and
because none of the above holds here, either, I can't say I necessarily trust
this committee to make that call to begin with.
-I
On 08/08/18 19:35, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
With all the clamoring for transparency, has anyone considered the privacy
implications for publicly documenting every complaint against a Phabricator
user? That seems like it could have just as much of a chilling effect on
participation, if not more, than the idea that you can be blocked for being
rude.
On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 12:05 PM Yair Rand<yyairr...@gmail.com> wrote:
I very much agree that profanity should not be used around Wikimedia, but
there's a large gap between "things we ideally wouldn't have", "things an
employee of a Wikimedia institution should be fired for", and "things a
volunteer contributor should be blocked for" (in that order). (The acronym
"wtf" has been used 532 times on Phabricator according to search results
(including some by the relevant CoCC members), and 10 times fully spelled
out.)
Just to remind everyone of some background, the CoC came into existence
after having a policy tag edit-warred onto it after a non-consensus-backed
discussion regarding a particular section was self-closed as consensus
reached for the entire document, attempting to establish an unaccountable
and secretive Committee that may ban users for any of a number of extremely
vaguely worded violations including "attempting to circumvent a decision of
the Committee", appoints its own members (none of which were
community-selected), can veto any changes to the CoC, and recently claimed
absolute authority over all development-oriented spaces on all Wikimedia
projects (including VPT, gadget/script/module talk pages) on a "consensus"
of a single user. It's quite clearly a completely illegitimate institution.
But leaving all that aside, this was a terrible decision. I recommend an
immediate unblock.
-- Yair Rand
2018-08-08 13:02 GMT-04:00 David Cuenca Tudela<dacu...@gmail.com>:
In general I would prefer to keep vulgar language out of the projects, as
it doesn't bring anything positive.
Research shows that swearing causes stress [1], and there are many ways
of
showing dissatisfaction without using coarse language.
For instance, I would appreciate if there would be more interest in using
Nonviolent Communication, as it is more effective in getting the message
across than with negativity.
Introduction:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-129JLTjkQ
Regards,
Micru
[1]http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/
journal.pone.0022341
On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 5:53 PM Bináris<wikipo...@gmail.com> wrote:
That's what I called a very first world problem.
This happens when American culture and behavioral standard is extended
to
an international community.
It is not rally polite to write that F-thing (how many times has it
been
written directly or abbreviated or indirectly in this very
discussion?).
But to ban a member of the technical community from the working
environment
is really harmful.
Although we do block people from editing Wikipedia, too, but we do it
publicly, clearly, comparably, and by the rules of the local community,
not
by hidden rules of admin board. And not for one ugly word.
This secret banning undermines the community, and therefore it is
destructive.
Additionally, as code of conduxt itself was discussed here, the coc
file
case was discussed here a few weeks ago, and this is the place where
most
Phabricatos users communicate, this is a good place to discuss this
case,
too. Publicity is good.
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
--
Etiamsi omnes, ego non
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
