Sorry I thought I was on list. I am simply replying. Not sure what might be happening.
Anyway in NVDA you can do a mouse click with numpad / . Right mouse click with numpad * . There are laptop key equivalents for these actions as well but I cannot remember them off hand. If you search in the user guide under either Object navigation or flat Review you should find it there. To access the user guide press NVDA N and then go to Help and then user guide. This opens a normal html document in your web browser which is searchable using NVDA Control F. David Griffith David Griffith -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Gordon Smith Sent: 08 June 2012 10:12 To: Windows Access; Share Your Enthusiasm! Subject: Re: NVDA Hi David First, could we keep this on list so that others can comment? I don't know whether it's the list configuration or you who is changing the reply address. But either way, it doesn't matter. :) Yes, this is a bit of a problem with NVDA. An example of the issue I'm talking about here is the "RollBack" interface. RollBack, for those who do not know, is a system utility which is used to preserve your computer's integrity. It makes a snapshot of your hard drive, at the sector level, at either automatic or manual points. Then, if anything goes wrong, you can simply revert your drive to the state it was in at the point of the last working snapshot and there you are, a working system again. It's a bit like system restore, except better. Anyway, its interface is partially not accessible via the keyboard. The way I used it with Window-Eyes was to open the interface, then use WE's search function to scan the open window for a specific bit of tet which I know brings up the dialogue I want. Once that text is located I do a left mouse click and there we are, a nice accessible dialogue. However, unless I've missed it, there doesn't appear to be a way to search the current window in NVDA and I haven't found a way to do a left click. Another thing I don't like about NVDA is the fact that you cannot customise the layout to your liking. In other words, you either have the desktop or laptop layout and you're stuck with the key strokes they think you aught to be using. So, for instance, the NVDA key is either the caps lock or the insert key, and that's it. On a laptop keyboard, using the caps lock key is a real pain in the backside at times. Often, however, there is no insert key so you're stuck with it. As far as Jaws is concerned, it appears that you cannot manipulate the mouse pointer without messing around with "Jaws Cursors". I could be wrong on that one as I don't use it. But that is my understanding of the situation. At least with Window-Eyes, you can interact with the mouse pointer without having to first use what can often be very confusing cursors. So I have to say I think GW Micro has their philosophy right on that aspect of their software. OK, so if anybody knows of a way of interacting with the mouse pointer in NVDA, please feel free to correct me. I'm more than happy to be wrong on this occasion as it means that the software is more powerful than I thought it was. Also, if somebody knows of a way to search the active window for a text string, please also feel free to correct me. Again it'd be a very welcome correction. Gordon On 8 Jun 2012, at 09:25, "David Griffith" <[email protected]> wrote: I agree it can be a problem. You can use Flat review which will move to different elements of a window and allows text to be read out. I do this using the Num Pad command but there are laptop equivalents. I agree though that In practice I have not found this as useful as say "jaws cursoring" in reading otherwise inaccessible windows. It may be that I am not sufficiently expert at using Flat review and others may be able to come to its defence by showing how it can be used more effectively. I have read the manual but have not followed a tutorial on flat review so I may be missing something. I do know that sometimes I have to switch back to jaws to have a difficult dialogue or interface read out which flat review has failed to pick up. I suspect that this comparative limitation may be a result of the decision not to use a Video display driver which has of course benefits elsewhere, especially in allowing the relative ease in creating portable implementations of NVDA. David Griffith -----Original Message----- From: Gordon Smith [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 08 June 2012 00:01 To: David Griffith Subject: Re: NVDA Hello David We are seeing several problems with newer applications that use the new mouse-only interface. Unfortunately, this approach kills NVDA stone dead because there's no keyboard equivalent. Therefore, it isn't the perfect solution and I do think that it takes away to some extent the effectiveness of their approach. MSAA is no doubt a clunky and sluggish way to handle what should be a usable web interface. For the most part we prefer NvDA's approach, definitely. But it has to be said that the apparent inability to manipulate the mouse pointer, if I understand you correctly, is a very big let-down. Window-Eyes and Jaws do allow the manipulation of the mouse pointer via the keyboard and, therefore, allow greater flexibility with the new interface. I know of a number of applications which now use that interface, Easy CD-DA Extractor to name but one. Gordon On 7 Jun 2012, at 23:26, "David Griffith" <[email protected]> wrote: NVDA uses a different approach to programs like Window Eyes and Jaws and does not have, as far as I am aware the same model, instead using flat review. Nevertheless it has arguably a better way of managing the mouse pointer. Instead of using a virtual mouse cursor it instead makes it possible to use a physical mouse or track pad by attempting to read whatever is under the mouse pointer when you move it. I cannot remember if you have to set this up in preferences but I think it is the default setting. NVDA will also if you want provide sound feedback as you move the mouse to allow a sense of where the mouse is physically located on the screen. Arguably this use of the real physical mouse rather than the keyboard is more intuitive. I suppose it might be possible to turn mouse keys on to get a virtual cursor approach. I have not tried it. In addition NVDA does not have the equivalent Voiceover type item chooser to look up and search for screen elements across the whole OS. If NVDA could develop something like that for windows that really would be a game changer. There is of course some functionality like this in Web browsers. In Firefox Web browser, you search for text with NVDA control F. Also Elements list with NVDA f7 brings up a list of screen elements which can be navigated to using letter navigation. this is a bit like item chooser but this is restricted to web pages and does not work across the whole system like on the Mac. If you are searching for text within screens generally I am not sure NVDA has this natively but the free third party Virtualisation add on will convert all the screen text, including text in menus etc, into text in a virtual window which can be read, selected and copied. Of course this is then searchable as text but links buttons within programs and so on will not work. David Griffith -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith Sent: 07 June 2012 22:50 To: Windows Access; Share Your Enthusiasm! Subject: Re: NVDA Hello Chris On 7 Jun 2012, at 20:43, chris hallsworth <[email protected]> wrote: . That's no problem go to the notification area, right click the NVDA icon to open the NVDA menu, click preferences, and click keyboard. In there turn on the ability to use caps lock as an NVDA modifier key. If it's any consolation if you set the keyboard layout to laptop this should happen automatically. Click ok when done. Next save the configuration with modifier-ctrl-c. OK, we've got that sorted. Now, we are trying to figure out whether there's any kind of "Find" or "Search" option to search the currently focussed window for a string of text. We're also trying to figure out how you manipulate the mouse pointer. Gordon did try turning on input help, (NVDA+1), but wasn't able to get info on that point. The help document is the next port of call I think; if it works. I'm happy to be able to say also that the InfoVox InKey picked up an update this afternoon from the Acapella Group website and the version of NVDA which is now installed on our InKey thumb drive supports Braille natively. Lynne On 07/06/2012 18:32, Mrs. Lynnette Annabel Smith wrote: > Hi Chris > > Herein lies the problem. One of our machines is a NetBook, and it does not possess an "Insert" key. Unless, of course, there's a function key assigned to replicate that; such as the FN key plus another key. We'll have to play with that. ======================================= To post to this group, please send your message to: [email protected] The Windows-Access E-Mail forum is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free To modify your subscription options, please visit your personalise subscriber options page, located at http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/windows-access You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Windows-Access forum at either of the following websites: http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/windows-access/index.html Or: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> you may also subscribe to this list via RSS. 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