[Winona Online Democracy] Steve:
Rather than re-stating your conclusions, I wonder if you would provide the following data: 1. What is the process you used to determine and assign the label "ideologically similar" and did you assign this label to individuals or to the particular posts? (I ask this because individuals may agree on one issue and disagree on others which I think is an important thing to be aware of in an ongoing dialog like WOD). Does the label of "ideologically similar" when applied to a person take into account the instances when individuals agree or disagree in a way that is dissonant with the label? These instances would be very important when one is attempting to find areas of agreement to move forward to an action that could benefit the community. 2. Can you provide the statistics that lead you to the conclusion that the numbers are "disproportionately large" and the standards applied? Have other discussion groups been studied and how do our stats rate compared to others? If other online discussion groups were significantly different in this regard, I would be very interested in how they were structured and facilitated to look for ideas that might increase participation. I may be oversensitive because of my role with WOD, but there seems to be a premise that a small number of posters is an indicator of a poor quality discussion. Regardless, do you have standards for a good quality of discussion and what are they based upon? I think that all of these things could be helpful to WOD over time. We could use the measurements that you've made to help set goals for improvement and measure progress. If you aren't willing to share this information, might you be willing to share a bibliography or the names of some other researchers in addition to yourself and Dr. Jacobs who study this type of phenomenon? If we are not able to use your data at this time, we may wish to initiate a self-study and would like to assure a thorough review of the literature. As a member of WOD, would you be willing to contribute to this process? Kathy Seifert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Schild Winona Online Democracy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Kathy Seifert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Online Democracy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 10:48 PM Subject: Re: Re: [Winona] WOD on MPR Kathy Seifert has asked me to "refresh us as to some of the findings that will help us to improve WOD." Though I don't know that my findings will help improve WOD, I consider the most important one to be this: During the periods I've studied, WOD has been dominated by a small group of ideologically like-minded people who write a disproportionately large percentage of the total volume of traffic. steve schild On Saturday, November 08, 2003 5:03 PM, Kathy Seifert wrote: > >Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 17:03:31 -0600 >From: Kathy Seifert >To: "Online Democracy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: Re: [Winona] WOD on MPR > >[Winona Online Democracy] > >Steve: > >Can you refresh us as to the findings that will help us to improve WOD? I >think that there were some valid points that got lost in the strong feelings >associated with some inflammatory language being thrown back and forth at >that time. I am particularly interested in any recommendations that came >out of your research that would lead us to better fulfill our mission. > >What do others want to know? > >Kathy Seifert >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Steve Schild Winona Online Democracy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Steve Kranz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 12:52 PM >Subject: cc: Re: [Winona] WOD on MPR > > >[Winona Online Democracy] > >Two points of clarification about what you call my "generalizing about how >WOD reponded to my article:" > >1. You wrote that the "angry" comments were made "primarily" by one person. >I re-read the posts, too, and was reminded that > >-- I was accused of being deceitful and unethical. >-- I was accused of trying to crucify WOD. >-- And (my personal favorite) I was called a skunk, albeit a skunk pulling a >pretty wagon of flowers. > >Those three comments came from three separate postings from three separate >people. Whether they're "angry" comments or not is matter of interpretation >for individual readers; it's clear, though, that none of the three is >pleasant, and that the unpleasant comments were not confined to one person >or one posting. > >The first statement, about alleged deceit and ethical lapses in my methods, >was taken to task by two Ph.D.s with extensive experience as researchers. >They concluded that my study was well-constructed, ethical and valuable. The >second and third statements have nothing to do with the substance of my >research; as such they constitute ad hominem attacks. > >2. I didn't state or imply that Jacobs had done any analysis of WOD. >Instead, I pointed out that my research about WOD bears out many of the >attributes and shortcomings that other researchers have found when studying >online discussion groups. In short, I just wanted to remind WOD readers that >my research might have some merit regardless of what some WOD members wrote >about it. > >steve schild > > > >On Tuesday, November 04, 2003 11:58 AM, Steve Kranz wrote: >> >>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:58:59 -0600 >>From: Steve Kranz >>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Subject: Re: [Winona] WOD on MPR >> >>[Winona Online Democracy] >> >>Steve S., >> >>I think you are doing a bit of generalizing of how WOD responded to your >>article. I just finished going through and reading all the posts related >to >>it. My sense is that the "angry" comments were made primarily by one >person >>(that included the "get a life" comment) and later on in the discussion he >>apologized to you for it. The rest of the dialogue, I thought, was fairly >>thoughtful -- perhaps a bit heated at times, but I don't think that is >very >>unusual for the list -- and the discussion included people advocating on >>both sides of many of the issues presented. >> >>I don't think there was ever any attempt by W.O.D. to deny that it could be >>improved by more diverse participation. There were a few people that >>acknowledged this in their posts and I even posted a message detailing how >>we had previously recognized the value of making Winona Online Democracy >>more representative of the community and had tried (unsuccessfully) to >>secure funding to accomplish that. >> >>The discussion ended with a request by a list member that you provide a >copy >>of your study in order that people could get the whole picture, rather than >>just the snapshot provided in the newspaper. You indicated >>that you were unable to provide it due to a possible publishing conflict. >> >>My reading of Jacobs' comments in the MPR story is that he was making >>general statements about online civic discussion groups. That is not to >say >>that these comments may not apply to WOD, but I do not believe that Dr. >>Jacobs has done any analysis of WOD in order to draw hard conclusions or >>criticisms that apply directly to the list (nor do I think he was trying >to >>imply that in his statements). >> >>-Steve Kranz >> >> >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Steve Schild Winona Online Democracy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 9:08 PM >>Subject: [Winona] WOD on MPR >> >> >>> [Winona Online Democracy] >>> >>> I wonder if Winona Online Democracy (WOD) members will be as angry at >>Larry Jacobs as they were at me a few months back. I wonder if they'll >write >>the same kind of things about him as they wrote about me. I wonder if >>they'll urge him to "get a life." >>> >>> Jacobs is the University of Minnesota political scientist quoted in MPR's >>recent story about WOD. Here are some excerpts from statements Jacobs >made >>in that story: >>> >>> --Jacobs says there was hope the Internet could help people reengage in >>the political process. But he says so far that hasn't happened. >>> >>> --"So what it looks like is the Internet is becoming another mechanism >>where we amplify the voice of one part of the electorate at the expense of >>another," says Jacobs. >>> >>> --Jacobs says research shows a correlation between education and Internet >>use. Just as education seems to increase a person's Internet use, it also >>increases the likelihood of a higher salary, an inclination to vote, and to >>contact elected officials. >>> >>> --Jacobs says instead of evening things out, the Internet has given a >>powerful segment of society one more tool for communication. >>> >>> --"The Internet has not proven itself to be this new populist vehicle for >>bringing in truckloads of alienated, disadvantaged, disenchanted voters who >>are outside the universe of our politics," he explains. "So these new forms >>of the Internet are great and they are bringing people out, but I'm afraid >>for the most part it appears to be the same crowd." >>> >>> All of those remarks sound familiar to me. Why? Because I said and wrote >>very similar things based on my analysis of the membership and content of >>WOD. In other words, the findings from my studies of WOD reflect what at >>least some other researchers have found. >>> >>> Is it a good thing that WOD has been featured in such a prominent news >>outlet? It's good for WOD, sure. But it would be a better thing if WOD >would >>overcome its acknowledged failure to attract participation from a bigger, >>more diverse group, such as the "alienated, disadvantaged, disenchanted >>voters." And it would have been better communication if the WOD notice >>touting the MPR story had told readers that the story discusses WOD's >>shortcomings as well as its successes. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy >>> All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. >>> No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. >>> To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit >>> http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona >>> Any problems or suggestions can be directed to >>> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact >>page at >>> http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org >>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy >>All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. >>No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. >>To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit >>http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona >>Any problems or suggestions can be directed to >>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact >page at >> http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org > > > >_______________________________________________ >This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy >All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. >No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. >To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit >http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona >Any problems or suggestions can be directed to >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page >at > http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org >_______________________________________________ >This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy >All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. >No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. >To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit >http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona >Any problems or suggestions can be directed to >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at > http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org _______________________________________________ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona Any problems or suggestions can be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org
