[Winona Online Democracy] I just wanted to overtly state my support of Steve's efforts to analyze the discussion on WOD. I think that it is imperative that we be open to critical analysis and willing to examine and discuss both our strengths and weaknesses as a discussion group. It is my bias and hope that we can learn from the patterns he discovers and use that information to improve the quality and effectiveness of WOD.
That being said, I would still like more information that supports his conclusions in order to form my own opinion as well as begin to define what direction his findings may provide to WOD. I think of WOD as an organization committed to continuous quality improvement and I know that ideas and suggestions from members regarding how to better meet participants' needs are always welcome to either the list as a whole or offline to the facilitators. All of this gets me to wondering if it's not time for another survey?????and yet we have never really formally followed up on the last one. What do others think? Kathy Seifert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Schild Winona Online Democracy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Steve Kranz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 12:52 PM Subject: cc: Re: [Winona] WOD on MPR [Winona Online Democracy] Two points of clarification about what you call my "generalizing about how WOD reponded to my article:" 1. You wrote that the "angry" comments were made "primarily" by one person. I re-read the posts, too, and was reminded that -- I was accused of being deceitful and unethical. -- I was accused of trying to crucify WOD. -- And (my personal favorite) I was called a skunk, albeit a skunk pulling a pretty wagon of flowers. Those three comments came from three separate postings from three separate people. Whether they're "angry" comments or not is matter of interpretation for individual readers; it's clear, though, that none of the three is pleasant, and that the unpleasant comments were not confined to one person or one posting. The first statement, about alleged deceit and ethical lapses in my methods, was taken to task by two Ph.D.s with extensive experience as researchers. They concluded that my study was well-constructed, ethical and valuable. The second and third statements have nothing to do with the substance of my research; as such they constitute ad hominem attacks. 2. I didn't state or imply that Jacobs had done any analysis of WOD. Instead, I pointed out that my research about WOD bears out many of the attributes and shortcomings that other researchers have found when studying online discussion groups. In short, I just wanted to remind WOD readers that my research might have some merit regardless of what some WOD members wrote about it. steve schild On Tuesday, November 04, 2003 11:58 AM, Steve Kranz wrote: > >Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:58:59 -0600 >From: Steve Kranz >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [Winona] WOD on MPR > >[Winona Online Democracy] > >Steve S., > >I think you are doing a bit of generalizing of how WOD responded to your >article. I just finished going through and reading all the posts related to >it. My sense is that the "angry" comments were made primarily by one person >(that included the "get a life" comment) and later on in the discussion he >apologized to you for it. The rest of the dialogue, I thought, was fairly >thoughtful -- perhaps a bit heated at times, but I don't think that is very >unusual for the list -- and the discussion included people advocating on >both sides of many of the issues presented. > >I don't think there was ever any attempt by W.O.D. to deny that it could be >improved by more diverse participation. There were a few people that >acknowledged this in their posts and I even posted a message detailing how >we had previously recognized the value of making Winona Online Democracy >more representative of the community and had tried (unsuccessfully) to >secure funding to accomplish that. > >The discussion ended with a request by a list member that you provide a copy >of your study in order that people could get the whole picture, rather than >just the snapshot provided in the newspaper. You indicated >that you were unable to provide it due to a possible publishing conflict. > >My reading of Jacobs' comments in the MPR story is that he was making >general statements about online civic discussion groups. That is not to say >that these comments may not apply to WOD, but I do not believe that Dr. >Jacobs has done any analysis of WOD in order to draw hard conclusions or >criticisms that apply directly to the list (nor do I think he was trying to >imply that in his statements). > >-Steve Kranz > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Steve Schild Winona Online Democracy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 9:08 PM >Subject: [Winona] WOD on MPR > > >> [Winona Online Democracy] >> >> I wonder if Winona Online Democracy (WOD) members will be as angry at >Larry Jacobs as they were at me a few months back. I wonder if they'll write >the same kind of things about him as they wrote about me. I wonder if >they'll urge him to "get a life." >> >> Jacobs is the University of Minnesota political scientist quoted in MPR's >recent story about WOD. Here are some excerpts from statements Jacobs made >in that story: >> >> --Jacobs says there was hope the Internet could help people reengage in >the political process. But he says so far that hasn't happened. >> >> --"So what it looks like is the Internet is becoming another mechanism >where we amplify the voice of one part of the electorate at the expense of >another," says Jacobs. >> >> --Jacobs says research shows a correlation between education and Internet >use. Just as education seems to increase a person's Internet use, it also >increases the likelihood of a higher salary, an inclination to vote, and to >contact elected officials. >> >> --Jacobs says instead of evening things out, the Internet has given a >powerful segment of society one more tool for communication. >> >> --"The Internet has not proven itself to be this new populist vehicle for >bringing in truckloads of alienated, disadvantaged, disenchanted voters who >are outside the universe of our politics," he explains. "So these new forms >of the Internet are great and they are bringing people out, but I'm afraid >for the most part it appears to be the same crowd." >> >> All of those remarks sound familiar to me. Why? Because I said and wrote >very similar things based on my analysis of the membership and content of >WOD. In other words, the findings from my studies of WOD reflect what at >least some other researchers have found. >> >> Is it a good thing that WOD has been featured in such a prominent news >outlet? It's good for WOD, sure. But it would be a better thing if WOD would >overcome its acknowledged failure to attract participation from a bigger, >more diverse group, such as the "alienated, disadvantaged, disenchanted >voters." And it would have been better communication if the WOD notice >touting the MPR story had told readers that the story discusses WOD's >shortcomings as well as its successes. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy >> All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. >> No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. >> To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit >> http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona >> Any problems or suggestions can be directed to >> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact >page at >> http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org >> > > >_______________________________________________ >This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy >All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. >No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. >To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit >http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona >Any problems or suggestions can be directed to >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at > http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org _______________________________________________ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona Any problems or suggestions can be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org _______________________________________________ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona Any problems or suggestions can be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org
