As an individual I find this thread of great
interest, but as a moderator I must respectfully request to move the discussion
to the national issues forum at this time.
I realize that there are differences of opinion
about whether or not there should be two separate lists and we can certainly
discuss that in a separate thread if members are interested in doing
so.
Thanks all--
Kathy Seifert
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Winona] "Kill the messenger"
[Winona Online Democracy]
Roy, Remembering what happened in Viet Nam I have
my Doubts that it will go much higher than a Lieutenant, or Captain.
Bob K
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:31
PM
Subject: Re: [Winona] "Kill the
messenger"
[Winona Online Democracy]
The special court martial Specialist Sivits received could not mete out
more than a year�s sentence. He also received a bad conduct discharge, which
is one step above a dishonorable discharge. His most serious charge was
maltreatment of detainees, but he wasn�t involved directly in the activities
others were; of course he was holding the camera. He will testify in the cases
of two sergeants and a specialist in their general courts martial (a more
serious venue than the special court martial that sentenced Sivits). I doubt whether his testimony will
lead much higher. He himself has said that he didn�t know the ultimate source
of the orders, which were merely �to soften up prisoners for interrogation.�
There was no indication of his having direct contact with a commissioned
officer or CIA agent in the incident. Any implication of higher officers or
CIA agents or civilian contractors (who may be exempt from punishment anyway)
will have to be the result of other investigations, I suspect, by both the FBI
and the Army.
World and Arab press have looked on the trial rather dimly, although it
was overshadowed by the deaths of Palestine civilians, including children, in
the Israeli tank and helicopter attack in the Gaza Strip and the US air strike
in western Iraq that resulted in the deaths of a least 40 members of a wedding
party, including children. The trial itself will receive more attention in
time (perhaps many are waiting for the results of investigations of the
unexplained deaths of 10 prisoners, but the current coverage in the Middle
East certainly revealed no praise. Among criticisms were the lack of any
aggrieved party in attendance, the short sentence for participation in rape,
the rush to trial itself, and the location in a small hall with public
surroundings. A Lebanon newspaper called it a �piece of theater.�
This prisoner torture is a mess that will hang over the United States
for a long time, although evidence of a genuine attempt to punish those
responsible will alleviate some bitterness. The fact that Saddam himself
tortured many people�a rationalization given by some commentators for
downplaying the affair�hardly can be used to pardon behavior of
representatives of a nation that was supposed to be a model
of fairness. Although evidence of guilt may not to go up
to the level of the Secretary of Defense, I cannot see how it can avoid
touching at least two brigadier generals and one major general and perhaps a
high-ranking CIA official. Certainly, superior officers cannot be let off the
hook even if they were not aware of details, and I would feel more comfortable
if they received heavier punishment than most of the enlisted people involved.
Roy Nasstrom
Winona
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