[Winona Online Democracy] David and all:
No, the following post would not be an accurate paraphrase of my message: "I cannot be negative about a city policy, because that would automatically be considered being negative about the individuals that made the ordinance." No, you are not right. I specifically stated and belive it is the intent of WOD for individuals to express a variety of opinions about government policies. It is not the intent to provide a forum for members to share opinions on the personality of policy-makers. Were you kicked off the list for the following statement? > To be more simplistic, it would be a ground for a list kick off to say > that the city acted fiscally irresponsible to place 40 stop signs over > a stretch of about 25 blocks of Wabasha Street when no regulation or > yield signs would be more appropriate. I believe not. I read this as your conclusion that it was fiscally irresponsible to place those stop signs on Wabasha Street because your view is that nothing or yield signs would be more appropriate. Another individual might see the stop signs as most appropriate and would conclude that the action was, therefore fiscally responsible. That is a difference of opinion as to what the most appropriate action was. If you had said it was "idiotic" or a "stupid" act, that would be a characterization of the policy-makers' intelligience and, yes, I would deem that to be inappropriate for this forum. (BTW I am only providing this as a hypothetical example. I have no such opinion of any policy maker and I am definately not implying that David has such an opinion) You would have crossed over the line of "difference of opinion" to a personal attack. My stance is that we must strive to be able to express a diversity of opinion without attacking those with whom we disagree. David's use of the phrase: "Big Brother is your friend. Big Brother has the answers. 1984" seems to be reference to my actions as some sort of thought control. I experience it as a personal attack. I can hardly be objective in this matter, though. I'm entertaining the idea of putting it to a vote. What do others think? Kathy Seifert ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Kathy Seifert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Online Democracy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 3:31 AM Subject: The Never Ending Rules Debate > > On Jul 12, 2004, at 21:21, Kathy Seifert wrote: > > > [Winona Online Democracy] > > > > To All: > > > > It has been called to my attention that my last post could be > > interpreted to > > mean that "opinions" per se are not to be expressed on WOD. Of course > > that > > is not the case. To go one step further regarding my concern, it is > > opinions about another's character or personality which are > > unacceptable. > > > > For example, it is perfectly OK for an individual to share his/her > > opinion > > regarding the issue of annexation--for, against, or indifferent, but > > it is > > not necessary to characterize the City Personnel and elected officials > > as > > "power hungry, land grabbers" and property owners in Wilson Township as > > simply "self-serving, role models for NIMBY-ism" in the process. That > > is my > > judgement as the moderator regarding the exchanges during the past day > > or > > so. > > So let me see if I have this right... > > I cannot be negative about a city policy, because that would > automatically be considered being negative about the individuals that > made the ordinance. According to what you just said, I should be kicked > off Wod for the following examples. > > The Alternate Side of the Street Parking signs makes no sense if one > actually looks at them and thinks about them. The signs say there IS an > ordinance, but not one of the signs that I have ever seen says WHAT the > ordinance is. Yet, advocates of these rules expect people to know what > the ordinance is based on seeing that sign. > > However, advocates of such policies, act that citizens that knowingly > or not who violate these policies are inept or choose not to pay > attention to the newly posted signs when the reality is the signs > really do not say anything. These advocates are a model of bad > communication. They know what the rules are, and their poor attempts to > communicate to others are completely unsuccessful and a wasted effort > unless they make their demands clear. Every year the same thing happens > and nothing changes. > > To be more simplistic, it would be a ground for a list kick off to say > that the city acted fiscally irresponsible to place 40 stop signs over > a stretch of about 25 blocks of Wabasha Street when no regulation or > yield signs would be more appropriate. > > > A question I often have had and have been asked is whether it makes a > > difference if the individual is directly characterized or their > > behavior or > > opinions are described in an offensive way. My sense is that if it's > > your > > behavior being characterized, it makes no difference even though the > > writer > > may argue that it does, defending his/her "innocence" of > > rule-breaking. I > > welcome everyone to discuss this issue on another thread if it is of > > interest. > > ... > > > As far as your concern that "WOD leaders need to control > > their system and its usage" > > I'm not sure what you are suggesting. You are welcome to share your > > specific suggestions on another thread, with members of the steering > > committee, or attend another of our meetings. > > Big Brother is your friend. Big Brother has the answers. > 1984 > > > And for the record, I don't think that it is appropriate to respond in > > kind > > to an online personal attack--two wrongs do not make a right. > > > > Kathy Seifert > > ******************************************** > David Dittmann > In 2002, less than one thousand persons, worldwide, died because of > terrorism; while in India, ten thousand persons died from venomous > snakes. > > _______________________________________________ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. 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