Hmm... since I'm not normally reading Patricks posts, but saw his quote below (in another message). Let me say this. Patrick, I do not hate everything Alvarion, I hate everything that has to do with Patrick Leary. I don't agree with your opinions or views and I do not even care to listen to any data that you may have available about anything, because as an Evangelist, you've constantly been argumentative and attacking anything and anyone who disagrees with you.
That being said, I have no desire to hear from you in any way, shape or form. My post was to the list, not directed to you. I'm here to participate with the community, to give back some knowledge and opinions that they've given me over the years. As for threats or attacks, I've got numerious from you, including lies that show how hard up you are for a sale, so hard up that you don't care about the fiscal responsbility of the WISP's, your just out trying to make a sale. I know thats the reason your on this list as well, probably because the other list you participate on has had many leave that list, due to your constant slanderous and combattive tone. I still monitor other lists, cuz I like to be informed and occationally I'll give back when I think it will be useful to others. Warning to those of you who respond to Patrick, take note, that he does like to attack you personally, if he wants to disagree with you, but can't provide any proof of why his statements are true. Perfect example is shown below.. As for my list, people do make comments about Alvarion from time to time, I don't stop them, I usually listen and if anyone asks for help with an Alvarion system, they will often find an answer on my list. You are quite mis-informed Patrick and it would be nice if you actually did some research before spewing your BS. I never said Alvarion was the only proprietary solution out there. There are definately others, but none of them give a bad name to the industry like Alvarion does, by having Evangelists trolling the lists for sales and in an attempt to sway public opinion. Other manufacturers provide support on public lists, without the constant sales spiels. OFDM is useless until it becomes affordable. BTW, there are a few affordable OFDM products on the market today, but it will take another 6 months or so, before we know how well people have followed the 802.11g standard and how interopable products are between manufacturers. $150 OFDM AP's are available, or you can spend $2500+ on an Alvarion OFDM system, or maybe $25k on a Redline OFDM system. Whenever I see a mailing list that is made up around a "user group" such as BAWUG, I realize that many of those people on the list have limited budgets, they are working to provide service for free to a community or at a fairly reasonable price. I don't see how Alvarion fits into that market, but if Patrick wants to waste his time trying to convince people to buy $2500 AP's when they can find $150 AP's, so be it. It used to be that Alvarion products (ie, Pro.11) were 2-3x the cost of other 802.11 gear on the market. As I told Patrick many moons ago, the prices are falling, except Alvarions. Today, you can pick up AP's for $60, while Alvarion is still selling them for $1000+. Do you realize that $1000 / $60 = 16.667 times the cost of a generic 802.11b AP that actually has more throughput? Then, consider Alvarion's $2500 OFDM AP's, in contrast to $150 Linksys or D-Link OFDM AP's, $2500 / $150 is again, EXACTLY 16.667 times the cost of a generic AP! In order for Alvarion to keep up with the competition out there, they have to sell 1/16th the volume at the $2500 price tag. Profit margins are NOT LOW when your dealing with such huge markup. And, lets not argue about features, cuz all the features in the world are not going to make an AP worth what Alvarion sells theirs for, IMHO. So Patrick, please refrain from attacking me onlist, for the sake of other subscribers, as I very rarely see your messages unless someone quotes it first and even then, I rarely read your quotes. I just happend to stumble on to this one. Judd > On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 06:38:45 -0700, Patrick Leary wrote: > >Judd, You are comparing apples to bananas to oranges. I know; I make > >them all (DSSS, FHSS, OFDM, and 900MHz). 900MHz produces better > >penetration soley as a matter of frequency, not modulation. And if > >you had a 900MHz that also did OFDM, you'd learn it would be far > >more capable than even my own 900MHz FHSS or anyone else's 900MHz > >DSSS. > > > >You are welcome to think OFDM is "useless." You should know though > >that every major WLAN company disagrees, as do the engineers in the > >IEEE. 802.11a is OFDM based. 802.11g is OFDM based. 802.16a is OFDM > >based. Within 2 years, you'll have a very difficult time finding any > >DSSS in WLAN world. The consensus is all there that OFDM represents > >the core of the next generation. Even Aperto, Proxim, Airspan, and > >others historically resistant to it, have now said OFDM will form > >their core products. > > > >As for UWB, no one with any knowledge would disagree that it is am > >extremely capable technology and can do all the best of everything. > >You neglect the reality of the regulatory environment. The FCC > >barely approved what minimal version they did. It matters not one > >wit what something can do if the feds do not permit the technology > >to be implemented to maximum effect. > > > >Lastly, you should be candid with this community and admit your > >visceral hatred of all things Alvarion. Lord knows I have the > >collection offlist threats and attacks from you over the past 2 > >years. It is also why no positive Alvarion comments or Alvarion > >people are allowed on his "uncensored" list. That is also why Judd > >will always take a position contrary to my position, regardless of > >its intellectual merit. > > > >Comments about our being proprietary are silly to the absurd. In > >almost every standard to date you'll find us as part of the core > >team creating it. In wireless broadband, there was no standard to > >implement. EVERY vendor building specific for wireless broadband had > >no choice but to implement "proprietary." There was no standard to > >implement. Now there is with 802.16a and where is Alvarion? We were > >in 802.16a in the begiunning. We are chiefly the ones responsible > >for creating harmonization between ETSI HiperMAN and the 802.16a > >(which was a very tough battle our scientists won that is key to > >industry adoption going global). Oh, and we hold the number 2 and 4 > >positions (VP and Treasurer) at WIMAX. And we announced with Intel > >just a few weeks ago that we will be the first to use their > >standards-based 802.16a silicon. > > > >Alvarion, Motorola, Proxim, Trango, Aperto, Airspan, Navin, > >Beamreach, Cambridge, Netro, Hybrid, Vyyo, P-Com, Western Multiplex, > >Malibu, Arraycom, Waverider, WiLAN, Redline, and the few others I > >missed...they all have proprietary products at the moment. Now that > >is an inconvenient fact isn't it? > > > >As for affordability? It is true, you find us too expensive. > >However, most of the market of legitimate operators disagree. Ours > >books are public. Examine them for yourself for the proof by > >comparing our results to any and all of our peers. > > > >- Patrick > > > > > >-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 11:08 > >PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: Re: [BAWUG] 802.11b Long > >Range non line of sight > > > > > >With DSSS and FHSS, you don't need LOS either. But there are > >extreme limits on distance and when it comes to getting links on a > >sectored or omni directional ptmp system, your going to be hit-and- > >miss. > > > >>From what I've heard, the 900Mhz stuff works well, very well, NLOS > >>like we > >see on our cell phones, where a general wall or building isn't going > >to kill your signal to an unusable amount. But at 2.4Ghz and > >5.8Ghz, even with OFDM and AP's that cost $2500+ each and $600-1000 > >CPE, your not going to only battle hit-and-miss coverage, but then > >you begin the battle price vs widespread acceptance of the > >technology. > > > >UWB might be the next big step, where, instead of a complete loss of > >a connection, you only lose part of the connection that is blocked > >and the throughput may fall, but may still be usable at 100Mbit of > >sustained throughput, even with error rates. > > > >Personally, I think that OFDM is useless unless it becomes > >affordable. Alvarion has never brought equipment down to a generally > >affordable level, in contrast to other existing equipment solutions. > >So I don't have much faith in anything that Alvarion claims, even if > >it is true and does work, cuz we don't want to go broke implementing > >proprietary solutions that give no consideration to current market > >demands, including price requirements for acceptance. > > > >By widespread acceptance, I mean that at some point, the equipment > >would become fairly "standard" for the industry. > > > >Judd > > > >Jeff King wrote: > > > >>Thanks Patrick. What I am looking for is the "white paper" that > >>will > >qualify > >>your statement: "With OFDM, you DON'T need LOS." in the context of > >>the > >title > >>of this thread (or at least the frequency domain). > >> > >>-- Jeff King, [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 07/29/2003 > >> > >>On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:15:04 -0700, Patrick Leary wrote: > >>>Until I can link to our paper, here are some resources to study > >>>OFDM. > >>> > >>>http://www.palowireless.com/ofdm/tutorials.asp > >> > >>-- general wireless list, a bawug thing <http://www.bawug.org/> > >>[un]subscribe: http://lists.bawug.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > > > > > >-- general wireless list, a bawug thing <http://www.bawug.org/> > >[un]subscribe: http://lists.bawug.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > > >This mail passed through mail.alvarion.com > > > > > >**************************************************************************** > >******** This footnote confirms that this email message has been > >scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, > >vandals & computer viruses. > >**************************************************************************** > >******** -- general wireless list, a bawug thing > ><http://www.bawug.org/> [un]subscribe: > >http://lists.bawug.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > -- > general wireless list, a bawug thing <http://www.bawug.org/> > [un]subscribe: http://lists.bawug.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless -- general wireless list, a bawug thing <http://www.bawug.org/> [un]subscribe: http://lists.bawug.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
