I use a both approach. I may not be the fast growing WISP, or the biggest (just over 30 subs) but we are making headway.
As JohnnyO, I am a one man band, with a little help from wife and son. I do the net admin, site surveys, and similar things. Wife does most of the accounting type functions. For installs, I have an electrical contractor that I use when climbing is involved as he has certified climbers. I have used him for some of the more complicated installs as well. When possible, I do them myself. Much less expensive.
Scott Reed
Owner
NewWays
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
www.nwwnet.net
---------- Original Message
-----------
From: Brian Rohrbacher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:41:23 -0400
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
>
"In house" for a one man band??? That is what I am. I thought
it
would be ok to sub out until I'm ready for the responsibility
of
employees. It's easy to sub out a few a week, but to have an
employee
work so few and such odd hours? Where do you find someone to do it?
>
>
Brian
>
>
Rick Smith
wrote:
> welcome to the real
world.
That million will turn into 3 million soon, and your schedule will
turn
into 4 weeks behind, and word of mouth will start spreading that
you're
not responsive.... get out and install on your
own.
>
> This, coming from a guy
that
subbed out intalls at $100 each until today. By reading these
posts,
I'm now convinced that it's all coming back
in-house.
>
>
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
>
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 1:28 AM
>
To: WISPA General List
>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
>
>
Because I have not left the "office" my living room, in 3 days
because
things keep coming my way. Computers, paperwork, a million calls.
No
customer support issues, just a million things I can't seem to
catch
up. And now I'm a few weeks behind on installs. I don't like
being
behind.
>
>
Brian
>
>
JohnnyO
wrote:
> Brian - why pay out that $95.00 when YOU can
go
do the install in 2 hours time ? Heck 3 installs = 1 new install
paid
for .... Sorry - guess Im just cheap and work too much - I suppose
we
all grow our business differently. I worked 2 full time jobs for
the
1st 8 months we were in the WISP game on top of building the
WISP......
>
> JohnnyO
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:57 PM
>
To: WISPA General List
>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?
>
>
Let me clarify. By sales guy, I meant someone who will knock on
doors
and say "here, this is available in the area, call for details"
hand
them a door hanger and leave. I pay my subs a free month
for
refferals. I'd give the "door hanger guy" the same, $35 per
"sale"
unless they were too good at it :) Then they would call, and I'd
make
the "sale". The "install guy" is a company who I trust. They will
do
installs for $95 a head. I have some more details (4 line
paragraph)
on my ROI if anyone wants to comment, hit me off list and I'll
forward
my ROI sheet to you for comment.
>
>
Thanks,
>
Brian
>
>
Tom DeReggi
wrote:
> No. You must do the
sales.
Trust that to someone else, and you will fail. It means that you
may
not be able to do the fun stuff like you thought you'd be doing,
but
its the reality of a successful business. UNtil you set the stage
of
how the sales process will go, and set the example of success
in
selling, it'll be hard to find a sales guy willing to work
on
commission or that will be worth a darn. I found that you can't run
a
WISP with only three people, although many have proven me wrong.
It
takes one to sell. It takes one to install. It takes one tech in
the
office to assist the installer with testing and router provisioning.
(
a tech can't get to APs and routers, when the link isn't up yet. A
lot
of things will come up, like which sector do you connect to when
its
near both of them? You don't always know how to configure it until
you
are onsite. Then what happens whem the installer needs help, such
as
someone to hold the ladder for a steep pitched roof? Then whose
gonna
answer the phone when the insude tech goes onsite to help
the
installer? You need that 4th person! Then whose gonna do you
book
keeping? You learn that why should you be doing it, when you time
is
best spent selling? You surely aren't going to have the techs do
your
book keeping? When you start to go after the bigger clients, if
there
isn't someone to answer the phone for every sales request and
tech
support issue, they get scared and go with the higher staffed
more
professional competitor. At first you start by using your cell
phone.
But then you learn that you can never get a darn thing done when
you
are answering your cell phone the whole day. So you stop answering
it
while on sales meetings. Then the callers have outages, amnd
have
already signed up with the competitor by the time tyou call them
back
hours later because they thought you went out of business. So
before
you know it you need 6 people minimum. Then you look at your
payroll
that just jumped to $20,000 a month. Then it takes you a few months
to
get things togeather like marketing material. Then everyone is
waiting
on you. Then you have a burn rate. You learn that the $20,000
capitol
that you had wasn't going to last the first month. Then you
start
getting subscribers, but theirs no money left to buy radios. By
the
time you get the radios three weeks later, the customers got tired
of
waiting and went with the competitor, so your staff has nothing to
do,
and you just burn through another $20,000 the next month. Etc.
Thats
the point most businesses
fail.
>
> So my advise is... Start
out
with two people. And use your cell phone for all
correspondance. Avoid
every technical detail that the tech mentality is enticing you to
get
involved with, that will just kill your time, no matter how much
its
tempting you. Go sell today. Go like that as long as you can,
until
you have no other choice but to hire. Then hire ALL the people
you
need and play to win. IF you under hire, you will just spin
your
wheel's never getting anything done but managing everyone, and
sales
stop, but salaries don't, and you go out of
business.
>
> Outsource every
technical
detail upfront, EXPECIALLY MAIL. Your only job can be sales
and
management. What will determine wether you will succeed is wether
you
can keep your time allocated more towards sales than
management.
Management duties will tend to monopolize your time, because they
have
to be done, and you will continue to loose money until you go out
of
business. You will learn there are four things you can't outsource
in
your early years, sales, management,managing your
finances
(accounting), and lending you money. Take every opportunity t oearn
an
extra couple buck on an install like hourly wages to set upo there
PCs,
and don't get suckered into giving that away for free, you will
need
every one of thosse dollars to carry you on. Ifyou leave management
to
someone else, they will turn your employees against you, and they
will
make the wrong decissions, and you will have to pick up the
peices
later, hopefully before its not to late. If you don't do your
finances,
you won't know you are in trouble financially until its to late,
you
need to be one with your budget and daily cash intake goals, and
there
is no way you can do it unless you are intimate with your accounting
on
a daily basis. You must do the sales because it the #1 most
important
thing in your business, and at all costs, it is the one thing that
MUST
be done for you t osurvice, you just can't take a change that it
wont
be done right. You must make it your business to make sure its
done.
and lastly finances, no one will lend you money but your self and
your
mother. So earn your money to fund your business, its the only way
you
are going to get it. And its going to cost you money. The small
dollar
business only last for a little while, the time that you have a
few
customers and you can do everything your self, without a pay roll,
when
you are willing to make sacrifices, and its fun to do so. But
employees
don't work for free, nor do they or there wives share that vison
of
unconditional loyalty without the montey coming in for long
hours
worked, they don't have the same high standard as you, because its
not
their business its yours. When you get to the stage of employing
all
the rules change. And thats when businesses start to realize
the
difficulties in running a business. Staying a one man shop no
longer
is an option because support of your client base is already more
than
one person can handle. But because ou undersold your services,
there
isn;t enough money to pay the salaries to hire the people to
support
the clients. and you go out of business.
>
> The most important stage
of
your business is the business plan and that starts way before
yuor
first hire. And then once you start growing you learn that
everything
in your business plan was hog wash. The model of 100 new subs a
month
ends up being 2 new subs a month because there were sales barriers
you
weren't aware of. You learn the huge flock of customers you got on
the
first month, was because they were the few needy customers that
were
easy to access. But then you learn that you need to market to
get
custeomrs, you learn that the marketing ends up costing more than
your
equipment. And once again you go out of business.
>
> Your mission when you
start
out, before you make all your hires, is to prove every detail of
your
business plan valid. Design a formula that guarantees you can make
a
certain number of sales within a time period. You need constants
in
your model. If you can only consistently sell 5 subs a month, that
s
OK, its a constant, you can make guaranteed business plans
with
constants.
>
> Sorry for the rant, but
the
biggest mistake I see in this business is when the operator
doesn't
realize the importance of sales. If your name is not on the
job
description, its a problem.
>
>
> Tom DeReggi
>
RapidDSL & Wireless,
Inc
>
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless
Broadband
-----
Original Message -----
From:
Brian Rohrbacher
To:
WISPA
General List
Sent:
Thursday, August 25, 2005 9:14
PM
Subject:
Re: [WISPA] Taking on an
investor?
>
>
I am looking into getting two people to help. One "install guy"
and
one "sales guy", both on commission. Then I can be the guy who
grows
the network to keep up, do site surveys, tower work/deals, and
paper
work. Ok plan or no??
>
>
Charles Wu
wrote:
Just a general word of advice...the biggest
pitfall/doom of most startups
is
not opportunity, but rather TOO MUCH
opportunity...
Watch cash flow closely, and don't bite off more than you can
chew
-Charles
-------------------------------------------
WISPNOG Park City,
UT
http://www.wispnog.com
August 15-17,
2005
-----Original
Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On
Behalf Of Tom
DeReggi
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:53
PM
To: WISPA General
List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an
investor?
Thats a great way to start.
Congradulations.
Tom
DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless,
Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless
Broadband
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:20
AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an
investor?
I just have to find someone to do installs. I have
as many waiting to
be
hooked up as I have hooked up. It's there for the taking, but I can't
take
it! The search for help has
started.
Tom DeReggi
wrote:
Most ISPs shared that plan. But it rarely works
that way, when you
want
to grow your
business.
Tom
DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless,
Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless
Broadband
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian
Rohrbacher"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:33
AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an
investor?
I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be
ok. Everyone all
paid
off and ready to
roll.
Matt Liotta
wrote:
I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did
it put the
investors
at
risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it and before your
company gets too successful you may want to visit a lawyer and get
things cleaned
up.
-Matt
Brian Rohrbacher
wrote:
Just typed up something on the laptop that
said, "I owe you
"this"
much", and we both signed it. Not fancy, but a little better than an
oral agreement. I won't miss a payment and will pay them back if it
takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs. Missing payments is not
an
option. Only if I'm laid up in the hospital.
Personal guaranteed?
Well, I told them I will pay it back... I know the agreement leaves
a
lot open, but I trust these 4 people.
Anyway, so they are not
investors. Lastly, lets just leave me be about this :) I'd rather
not try to defend a million questions about what if this and what if
that. It is what I did and it is
done.
Charles Wu
wrote:
that would be a
loan
what type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you miss
a
payment?
have you personally guaranteed the
money?
-Charles
-------------------------------------------
WISPNOG Park City,
UT
http://www.wispnog.com
<http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17,
2005
-----Original
Message-----
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
*On Behalf Of
*Brian
Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20
PM
*To:* WISPA General
List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an
investor?
Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all
control.
Correct me if I am wrong. They gave me money at a fixed rate. Loans
or
investments?
Charles Wu
wrote:
well...in determing their "dumbness"
(assuming you're willing
to
divulge this information) - what sort of investment /
equity
share / control do your investors
have?
I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does
everyone
have
an equal share? (which is a different story all together)
or
does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4
are
minority
partners
-Charles
-------------------------------------------
WISPNOG Park City,
UT
http://www.wispnog.com
<http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17,
2005
-----Original
Message-----
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
*On Behalf Of
*Brian
Rohrbacher
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 8:05
PM
*To:* WISPA General
List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an
investor?
Well, I guess I found four "dumb" people that got
me
started. All my start up funds came from 4 people.
All
four were subs from a previous WISP I owned, (before
my
partner took everything over and left me out in the
cold)
they all said, "I want you providing service, not the
"other
guy". So here I am. 7 months in and going strong.
Oh,
almost forgot, like my lawyer has me say......all that
is
just my opinion. ;-) I think "dumb"
investors
are
great!
Charles Wu
wrote:
sure
a passive minority equity position stake in
a
privately
held company is worthless, as legally, the person with
the
majority stake can make 100% of the decisions (in terms
of
purchasing, spending, cash distribution,
etc)
think about it, if it was your money, would you
be
willing
to just "invest it" into a company when the
majority
partner can do whatever he/she wants to and you have
no
recourse?
-Charles
-------------------------------------------
WISPNOG Park City,
UT
http://www.wispnog.com
<http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17,
2005
-----Original
Message-----
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
*On Behalf
Of
*Dylan
Oliver
*Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 4:10
PM
*To:* WISPA General
List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an
investor?
Charles,
would you expand on
that?
On 8/22/05, *Charles Wu*
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
wrote:
FWIW...no invester (other than friends and
family)
worth their salt will
be
willing to invest capital into the company for
a
minority position, as
that
is basically a sure way to guarantee the loss
of
their
money
That said, there is a fool born every
day
-Charles
-- Dylan
Oliver
Primaverity,
LLC
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