Additionally on the whole co-op idea, there are different non profits for
co-op's, which wispa is not set up as.



On Jan 5, 2006, at 11:50 AM, Charles Wu wrote:


Your idea is sound, but personally, I would think that what you propose
falls into the same category as the "WISP Buying Coop"
IMO, WISPA needs to focus on talking / lobbying in front of the FCC
Now, if WISPA members want to get together and form such a CoOp -- go for it

Btw...Part-15 I believe has some sort of wholesale VoIP program for its
members (through Nuvio?)...


WiNOG Austin, TX
March 13-15, 2006

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 1:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VOIP on a shoestring

Matt Larson,

I do not have adequate experience to pass judgement on your suggested
configuration. However I will add, base on my recent Rant regarding
Wholesale VOIP providers that don't look at small WISPs as valuable
partners, I believe leveraging WISPA membership base to negotiate a good deal for us all is a good idea. I believe WISPA should agree to endorse a wholesale provider in exchange for them to be required to give partnership to 100% of WISPA member's that request partnership. I'd be willing to waive

my personal preference of providers in favor of selecting a VOIP wholesaler
that supports WISPs and recognizes our consolidated numbers as worthy

WISPA then could also act as a mechanism to more effectively distribute reocurring changing information to the membership so the Wholesaler only has

to do it once.

Many discussion have been had on what ventures should be explored by WISPA for the benefit of the membership, that would not be in conflict with the services that the members themselves already provided, and was in line with
the goals of the organization adn what it is intented to be.

Facilitating a group deal for VOIP is one of those things that I think would

be a great thing for WISPA to do. But its got to be an all or nothing deal, meaning vendor accepts all WISPA members that are interested, as a condition

of agreement.  Negotiate once, replicate many.

The reality is most WISPs are not the size alone to have any weight to
negotiate. Maybe a few guys like Travis have enough volume, but not the
majority of us. I'd be willing to donate time to that cause if needed,
wether it be determining the requirements needed in an agreement or
distributing the info after the fact.

Whether the provider be you, Matt Liotta, or a national carrier is
irrelevant to me. I just believe that WISPs will own at least 15% of the nations broadband subscribers at some point, and I believe that that is a significant enough market share that there has got to be someone with enough

brains to realize the value of WISP partners, to the extent that they will
offer favorable terms to the organization.

My concern is that most VOIP providers (that value partnerships) home in on
business managed PBX VOIP solutions. Although I do not dispute their
reasoning for that, that does not help WISPs nationwide, whose businesses
may include a large amount of residential focus as well.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <>
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] VOIP on a shoestring

I don't believe you will find good margins with the setup you are
specifying. Additionally, you can forget about fax working, which is an
absolute requirement for businesses.

If anyone on this list wants to do VoIP over wireless, figure out how
do fax before committing to the business. From experience I can tell you
that it cost us an enormous amount of money to get fax working with


Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:

Hello all,

After a year and a half of watching, jumping in and learning about
I think I have come up with a way to implement it with a relatively low budget setup. Here is my very general outline of how to deliver VOIP on
a shoestring:

1) Asterisk server with AMP (Asterisk Management Portal): This is a great soho phone system, but on the right machine it appears that it can also be used as a production VOIP server. The key is that it uses MySQL
databases for the extension and trunk configurations.  Another
necessity - G.729 codec licensing. G.729, GSM and ilbc codecs work great

on wireless - even garden variety wifi.  AMP has a nice web-based
interface for maintenance and a decent website for checking voice mail
and account usage.

2)  Freeside billing server - Freeside can be modified to submit the
necessary variables for voip service to an AMP box. That means that the billing for the VOIP can be done with the same server that is doing ISP billing, and it can also handle provisioning/deprovisioning. I don't
have this quite sorted out yet, but am getting close.

3)  An ATA (Analog Telephone Adapter) that has a built in router and
supports the codecs listed above (G729, GSM, ilbc). My preferred one at the moment is the Grandstream HandyTone 488. It is $75 to $80. This
unit includes one VOIP line, a router with dhcp and nat, an FXO port
(which means that it can route calls through a regular phone line) and a PSTN pass through port. If the customer has an existing phone line, 911 calls can be set up to go right to their regular phone. I have tested
out the Sipura and Linksys adapters and they work as well, but the
Grandstream has more features for a lower price.

4)  A GOOD ITSP (Internet Telephone Service Provider).  An ITSP is
you can get your numbers and long distance termination. Right now, I am
very happy with Teliax for my numbers and inbound termination, and
Voipjet for outbound termination. Voipjet is a little cheaper, so when everything averages out, minutes cost about 1.5cents each. If there is a

lot of local traffic, you can also get a few local lines and place the calls through those lines instead of using the ITSP. Teliax has a wide

selection of local numbers, better than just about anyone else, and their

support and network performance is top-notch.  I'm not using a large
volume of minutes yet, but I think there may be some interest in putting together a plan for WISPA members to band together for volume discounts.
5)  Find the right balance of pricing and features - I"m looking at
$24.95/month for residential with a $50 setup fee - but we maintain
ownership of the ATA unit.   If a 1000minute soft cap is put on the
residential accounts, you can figure $15 maximum for the minutes used -
with $5 (approx cost) for the inbound number that leaves a $5/month
profit. If the user only uses 500 minutes, then that is a $12.50/ month profit. That is where a few local lines might come in handy to provide a

non-ITSP route to the PSTN that is fixed and doesn't have per minute
charges. That would increase the profit margin. Businesses should be
under a different plan completely.

We are getting demand from some strange places for VOIP.  Several
towns in my service area have monthly phone rates of $90-$100 per line for local phone service. We are finding that the phone service is more valuable to them than the Internet and they could care less about having a local number. A VOIP phone with a toll-free number is just fine for them, and even with the Internet service they can cut their phone bill in

half.  That is a little nuts.
I welcome any comments from others who are working on the same thing.

Matt Larsen

I'm sure there are some guys out there who are going to have some
on ways to improve this, so please speak up if you have some ideas.

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