I am reading all of these posts and I see one thing here.  Marketing! There is 
little sense to this but a great deal of marketing being done for Mesh, 4.9, 
and Muni WiFi.  I see out of town guys chime in all the time and express how 
well they can deploy and integrate networks.  I am very curious about the 
actual implementations they have done that involved a large mountain ranges 
with customers spaced every 5 miles who are behind trees, or has some 
obstruction to any towers.  Better yet a neighborhood with devices on the same 
frequencies that you cannot control.  My guess is that their lab and specs of 
their devices looks great but the actual deployment is a different story.  We 
all know that 2.4Ghz, 900Mhz, and 5.8Ghz, all have their limitations, and will 
perform perhaps 10% to 20% worst than advertised.  Do these guys know that? 

As for the marketing bit, I have a 2.4Ghz wireless device that can communicate 
at 100 mph, at distances of 100mi from the tower using 60foot dishes, giving a 
throughput of 200Mbps.  It sells for $50,000.00 per Clieint bridge and 
$600,000.00 per AP.  Who wants to buy?


Quoting Carl A Jeptha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Well to one-up you,
> Our local Utility has been offered Wimax Radios to be used in a Mesh 
> Network on a licensed Freq, so that they can read meters.
> What really gets me is that these people with a few carefully chosen 
> words appear to know more than all of us put together. The gift of the GAB.
> 
> You have a Good Day now,
> 
> 
> Carl A Jeptha
> http://www.airnet.ca
> office 905 349-2084
> Emergency only Pager 905 377-6900
> skype cajeptha
> 
> 
> 
> Brad Larson wrote:
> > I'm biting my tongue on this topic....I have been on enough of these
> > projects, well over 50 in the last 12 months alone, and I have to say
> there
> > are a pile of people that don't know what they're getting into and many
> will
> > get hurt. For instance, I have a unnamed mesh vendor quoting 14 nodes per
> > square mile for 100% coverage in a decent sized community in MA. They'll
> > need at least 40ish... And please keep in mind that different parts of the
> > Country where tree lines/foliage, noise floors, and topology are different
> > create their own separate challenges. Throw in voice as some of the
> > "wireless network experts" have advised and a whole new overlay of
> problems
> > surface.
> >
> > There is a place for mesh just like other tools in your kit but covering
> > whole counties or even trying to cover a whole City is quite a stretch
> IMHO.
> > How did we get to this point of mesh first being considered a "convenience
> > or hotspot extension" to what it has become today where it is seen as the
> > 4th solution to the last mile or a cost effective roaming solution for
> > public safety or city workers? 
> >
> > I have seen designs in the NE US where 40 to 69 2.4 Ghz nodes per square
> > mile are needed when a simple implement of 900 Mhz mobility with two base
> > stations (redundant) per square mile can do the trick and save 90% of the
> > cost of a mesh network. Use mesh in the parks, at the pool, in the
> > restaurant district, or anywhere else people may want public access. And
> > I'll add that opening up my notebook on a sunny day outside is pretty much
> a
> > waste of battery power. I'm afraid Tempe AZ and St Cloud are just the
> start
> > of some of the bad press we're going to see related to our wireless
> > industry. 
> >
> > But then again, I'm a show me guy so if one of these major networks
> actually
> > works, has an ROI and doesn't become a boondoggle for tax payers, and
> serves
> > the public well then I'll be impressed. Brad
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John J. Thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:03 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
> >
> >
> >   
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: George [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 09:02 AM
> >> To: 'WISPA General List'
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
> >>
> >> John J. Thomas wrote:
> >>     
> >>> inline...
> >>>       
> >>> First off, the WISPs have to have the guts to talk to the city. Many
> >>>       
> > simply refuse to do so, and are probably going to get the Muni WiFi shoved
> > down their throats.
> >   
> >> I don't want to turn this into a battle of ideals.
> >>     
> >
> > George, you are welcome to believe anything that you want. Here are some
> > facts;
> > 1. I work for Clare Computer Solutions and we are a Cisco Mesh certified
> > network Integrator.
> > 2. Cities have approached US to install their networks
> > 3. These cities are not San Francisco sized, they are probably populations
> > 100,000 and smaller.
> > 4. They are spending the money to put in infrastructure for City workers,
> > first. Many are looking at providing Internet access second.
> >
> >
> >   
> >> But how many local wisps have been chosen to date?
> >> I bet Joe laura in NO got passed over without much consideration to him.
> >> Joe is on this list, let him chime in here.
> >>
> >>     
> >>> Second, the cities are mostly going to use 2.4 GHz for access and
> 5.7-5.8
> >>>       
> > GHz for backhauls. WISP's will need to use 5.25-5.25 GHz and 900 MHz.
> >   
> >> Almost every wisp today is using 2.4 to reach the customer and 5 gig for 
> >> infrastructure and high end customers. Are you saying that wisps have to 
> >> move off the existing spectrum and replace their equipment?
> >>     
> >
> > I am not saying that WISPS have to move off of 2.4. I am saying that if
> > WISPs want to provide top quality service, then they may need to move off
> of
> > 2.4 as it is getting crowded in lots of areas.
> >   
> >>> In a word, service. The city will only be offering WiFi access-period.
> >>>       
> > They won't be going out to peoples houses and doing installs, fixing
> virii,
> > doing firewalls, etc.
> >   
> >> Here is a scenario, if a potential customer who is on the fence while 
> >> deciding to go to broadband was to hear that a new muni free wifi system 
> >> is going to come on line or he can buy now with his local wisp, which 
> >> choice is the average consumer going to make?
> >>     
> >
> > Most are going to try the muni first. Some are going to be unsatisfied and
> > will look for a better deal. I'll give you an example. I had 384k SDSL to
> my
> > house and it was costing me $152 per month. In order to save money, I
> > dropped the SDSL in favor of a cable modem. The cable modem can do 6 meg
> > down and about 384k up for $43 per month and has been verified by
> > DSLreports. Even my wife thinks the SDSL was better, I just couldn't
> afford
> > it anymore. If someone in Antioch CA were even offering wireless service
> at
> > $42 per month, I would be there. There is a subset of people that want
> > quality, and are willing to pay for it. Two questions come up-can you
> > deliver and are there enough to keep you from starving?
> >
> >
> >
> >   
> >> The support scenario happens long after the fact.
> >>
> >> George
> >> -- 
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >>     
> >
> >
> >   
> 


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