We are kinda stuck in the same dilema

Gino A. Villarini
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 9:53 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] looking for a device

Yes the answer is not. But the question is one of great interest to me, and 
I'm interested in learning from others experience on the topic.

ON our network our biggest focus right now is to improve the methods to 
shorten time and improve acracy of diagnosing performance issue on a 
network.  We have great tools that help us find problems that other ISPs 
often don;t even realize exist becauyse they have limited their abilty to 
test their network based on how they designed it.  But it takes us way to 
long to conclusivelly come up with a diagnosis because their are so many 
possible places where failures could occurs to contribute to degregation. 
I'm not talking about major failures. I'm talking about reported problems 
like... Intermittent disconnects. Intermittent VOIP quality performance. 
Etc. (I am NOT saying that we have an overly large amount of problems, I'm 
just saying a large numbner of people report problems because networking is 
complicated and end users are under trained.). 95% of the time we can clear 
our name and prove that causes were related to issues off of our network. 
But it can take a lot of tiem to prove it. And if you don;t prove it, how do

you know your network really is operating correctly.  So how does this 
problem apply to this thread?... Well, if I simplify my network, there will 
be fewer things to look at in the diagnosis process.  What simplications can

be made, without compromising performance or abilty to trouble shoot the 
network conclusively?  These questions need to be asked when considering 
routing versus bridged. Do you consider the needs of your prospective 
clients, or your needs to better offer your core services? All things to be 
considered.

Right now we are both 100% routed and 95% VLANed.  It gives us a lot of 
power and security features. But I tell you it is a super management 
headache. I'm looking for ways to simplify. Do I go more towards Layer2 or 
more towards Layer3? Thats a question I'm looking at hard right now.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Hendry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 3:14 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] looking for a device


> So that's a no then Tom ;)
>
> Using various bandwidth test tools (such as the one builtin to Mikrotik)
> from/to multiple source/destinations you can generate all sorts of traffic
> profiles. You can decide on the size of the packets, layer 4, direction 
> and
> even bandwidth so I'd say it's very possible to set-up a test environment
> that isn't too far of real world. Anyone else tested?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> Sent: 14 June 2006 03:13
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] looking for a device
>
>> Anyone compared a routed solution with
>> a Mikrotik bridged solution for delay/jitter?
>
> Good question.  But the problem there is creating a real world test
> environment. Convergence, can be tested  somewhat accurately in low 
> network
> utilization situations. To adequately test Jitter/Delay you really need to
> load the network, as that is when the jitter and sparatic latency happens.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Paul Hendry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:02 AM
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] looking for a device
>
>
>> The delay in switching a packet at hardware is less than the delay in
>> routing a packet at software. This is 1 of the reasons that Cisco created
>> the G"S"R and why an MPL"S" switched network is fast than a plain routed
>> network.
>>
>> I'm not too interested in convergence times as we only have very minimal
>> outages so RSTP should suffice. How fast a packet can traverse our 
>> network
>> on the other hand is important so that we can reliably run VoIP and other
>> delay/jitter sensitive applications. Anyone compared a routed solution
>> with
>> a Mikrotik bridged solution for delay/jitter?
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Matt Liotta
>> Sent: 13 June 2006 13:26
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] looking for a device
>>
>> Paul Hendry wrote:
>>
>>>We too have been looking at moving from routed to a switched Mikrotik for
>>>the core network but the unknown quantity seems to be if there are any
>>>latency or speed issues related to the move. A "true" switched network is
>>>faster than a routed network as the switching is done at a hardware level
>>>but in Mikrotik I believe both switching and routed is done in software.
>>>What have you seen?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Faster in what way? Certainly, a routed network is going to beat a
>> switched network in terms of covergence speed.
>>
>> -Matt
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