David Smith said:
"You never know. Thanks to irony, my apartment is in a dead spot, where I can't get my own company's wireless service, so I've got a cable modem at home. Right now, my home router's IP address is assigned from a /20 - the router reports my network mask as 255.255.224.0, and my default gateway really is a couple thousand addresses away. Being a cable company with positively obscene amounts of money, I'd assume they're using some sort of fancy VLAN solution, or at least a really smart switch. But heck, I don't really know. One of these days, I'll be bored, and plug in the notebook, with Wireshark running, just to see what kind of other traffic I can see out there..." UH OH!! You let the dogs out!! Let the games begin. lol HERE WE GO: Routing -vs- a flat bridge is a no brainer IMHO. There are exceptions to this rule when a man owns a small WISP service of a couple to a hundred or so (who knows where the transition lies?) to move over to a dynamically routed network. It's not a terribly hard transition to make if one prepares for this transition. I can also say that a network with good switches that are capable VLAN's and Trunking can absolutely do a wonderful job - - maybe as good a job as a routed network, but then some of the benefits of a routed network out weigh (IMHO again) the ease of a Trunked/VLAN network. The major turning point for me away from the Trunked/VLAN'd network was the BS you have to go through for RSTP to actually provide that failover redundancy on a network my size and all the switches that must be informed/config'd for the failover to failover all the way back to the NOC with the VLANS still intact and functional - passing traffic. If you have a dynamically routed network then OSPF just works and it appears that it works well - - I mean it just does its thing. I am a hard head and when I started this service about 5 years ago I had no network experience at all - NONE! I was a towboat Captain on the Inland waterways and own a Forklift sales/service company as well I had never even formatted a PC so understand that I started as a complete imbecile and have moved way up the ladder to just "dumb" today, but I can testify to the world that a bridged network is easy - it works - it works with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of subs, but then it certainly has its short comings as well. I don't think that a new man in the ISP business with no experience needs to route his first 20 clients on three different APS because so many out here think that bridging is the Devil. It's not the Devil nor was it conjured up from beyond the gates of hell. It is a vital transport service and many large government facilities have huge - -I mean huge - completely bridged VLAN'd/Trunked networks. It does work and it is another means of providing service. NOW -with that said I can attest that I have been in all 4 situations - - - flat bridge, VLAN bridged, static routed (that's just ugly, unnecessary & a major PITA IMNHO) and currently moving segments of the VLAN'd network to a dynamically routed to clients and a bridged backhaul. Routing is not hard - as a matter of fact it's plumb easy, but it is not always the answer. I attribute those who have the attitude of "route or die" in the same class as those who say "open source rules and MS sux big fat ones" - - it shows a complete bias and ignorance - - once again - - IMNHO. The real truth is that a well educated & well rounded network engineer will use MS for its strengths and open source solutions where it can be best utilized. MS has some really good stuff, but then I run a dozen FreeBSD & CentOS servers along with 1 MS2003 server. I think that bridging-vs-routing ought to fall amongst those same lines - - choose the one that fits and use it knowing that you may need to change your ways down the road depending on network size/sub count and manageability. Education and understanding is vital in any business. Open eyes and an ability/willingness to see another's view point is just as important. If you are going to try to help someone or steer someone in any direction - - you better stand in their shoes, examine what it is that will be of the most use to them and most beneficial for them and THEIR network. The "route or die" theme is not always right, but it's not the Devil either. If you are going to be a help to a fellow WISP - - ck out his knowledge and don't lead him into something that is overkill, terrible complex and don't add a bunch of unneeded crap on his network that he can't manage. If his network runs today and he can manage it then take one small step at a time with EDUCATION being at the forefront of the process. I would hate to be the one who dealt "pure misery" to a man (and his clients) in the name of friendship by leading him where he didn't absolutely need to be because I am a routing idiot and have a bias to such actions. SUMMARY: USE THE SHOE THAT FITS - ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL - EVER! The saga of Mac Dearman -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 10:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Routed vs bridged (again)... Butch Evans wrote: >> There are nearly 4000 (unfortunately not all mine :-) 100meg customers >> on that network. > > I don't want to argue this point, because I just don't have enough > information about the network. I seriously doubt, though, that all > those customers are all on a single /20 network (which would support > 4096 hosts). Even worse, if there are routers there, too, it may need a > /19 (which would accomodate over 8000 customers). If they are not, take > my word for it...they are routed. You never know. Thanks to irony, my apartment is in a dead spot, where I can't get my own company's wireless service, so I've got a cable modem at home. Right now, my home router's IP address is assigned from a /20 - the router reports my network mask as 255.255.224.0, and my default gateway really is a couple thousand addresses away. Being a cable company with positively obscene amounts of money, I'd assume they're using some sort of fancy VLAN solution, or at least a really smart switch. But heck, I don't really know. One of these days, I'll be bored, and plug in the notebook, with Wireshark running, just to see what kind of other traffic I can see out there... David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
