----- Original Message ----- From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....
> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Koskenmaki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 10:55 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page.... > Sigh. No we don't. We have as long as we need. So the deadline is no more? I read it. There will be no exemptions and there will be extensions. I read the rules, published by the FCC. So, did they lie, or has there been an update nobody's been told about? > > Nope. I'll have to hire Butch to help me out. Probably Mike too. But > those two things won't cost all that much. It'll just be some programing on > devices I already own. Not much worse than what I do when I need some > router or server work done now. > > You are making a mountain out of a molehill. Nope. > > I honestly don't understand why you want to pile all of this stress upon > yourself. Those of us that are EMBEDDED in the problem aren't as worried as > you are. If it were really as bad as you're making this out to be we, of > all people, should be ready to put a bullet in our heads. That's because you have money and credit and don't really care about doing the right thing, vis a vis federal mandates. > > Instead, I'm more at ease than I was before WISPA started it's efforts. I'd be a lot more at ease if WISPA was going to stand up for the industry. > > > > > > >> > >> You don't need a TTP. > > > > Only if you're so well educated in networking that you can use the VERY > > geeky tools out there to rip the data and headers apart and put it all > > back > > together in the form they demand it be provided in... with perfect > > accuracy. > > Nope. There are free tools out there to help and people that don't charge > more than OPEC to help you out. But you can't point to a single one of them, and you have no idea how to make my network compliant. Not a clue. This is why I find this "it's no big deal' so amazingly frustrating. > > > > >> > >> What you DO have to do is collect specific data. How you do so is up to > >> you. > > > > Of course. Since most of us can't do that, we HAVE to have third party > > something, be it software or hardware or services. > > Nope. That'll be the easiest but it's not a requirement. Marlon, either come out and state you think the requirements are just loose guidelines, or start admitting we're all clueless. > > But, heaven forbid, you might actually have to ask someone for some help :-) Sure. Send over 10 grand. That might do the job. > > > > >> > >> You do have to do it without tipping off the suspect. > >> > >> You do have to be able to verify it's authenticity at a later date. > > > > This means you better be an expert at what you're doing. I have a decent > > understanding of what's asked for, but absolutely NO practical experience, > > and not even any theoretical education on how its done. > > Nope. It just means you have to keep something called a HASH file. > Whatever that is. The hash is nothing more than a key file to assure a file is unchanged. It has nothing to do with the things I mentioned above. > > > > >> > >> You do have to do as much as you can to help LEA. If you do not follow > > *a* > >> standard, you've got to try to do anything that LEA asks of you. If you > >> follow a standard then you only have to do what is required by the > > standard. > > > > In other words, if you don't follow a "standard" then you're totally > > screwed, unless you have one of those brilliant geniuses on staff who can > > do > > anything. > > Well, certainly following a standard is going to make things cheaper and > easier on us. But hey, that's part of why people should support WISPA. > We're putting forth the effort to be able to develop a standard aimed right > at our industry. Cool huh!?!?!?!?! Not really. It wont' help me any. > > > > >> > >> CALEA is reasonable just like emissions on power plants is reasonable. > >> Mark, when you were a mechanic you had to dispose of old oil, solvents, > >> brake dust etc. in specific ways that were more expensive than just > > dumping > >> it in the parking lot or down the drain. The costs are sometimes > > > > Sure. We BURNED IT. Got useful heat from it. > > And put lots of nice heavy metals in the air. Nice. grin Huh? > > You burned your antifreeze? Greasy rags? Solvent? Riiiiight. You did not ask about antifreeze or greasy rags. Our rags came from a laundry service. We didn't have any antifreeze to deal with. > > > > >> transferred to the end user because it's REASONABLE for the business > >> operator (or home owner or whatever) to take some responsibility for > > making > >> this a better country. No shame in that. > > > > NOT AT ALL. It is NOT "reasonable" to expect the vast majority of the > > operators to be able to do ANY of this, from the 24/7/365 phone answering > > to > > the deep technical knowledge, to the redesign of networks to the > > incredibly > > expensive TTP's. Trust me, Marlon, those TTP's are out to screw you as > > hard as they can. Competition? There WILL NOT BE ANY. If you have to > > sign an NDA to get a price, this is worse than the telephone company's > > competition- which does not exist. > > You don't have to be available 24/7/356. Didn't you read the FAQ? Didn't > you file your forms? You just have to tell them who to call, and if there's > no place to call 24/7 you have to tell them when they CAN likely reach you. Ok, so you think all the rules are just looseguidelines? Or they've been changed to "preferred" status? If not, then... they apply. > >> By the time we (wispa) get done with CALEA we'll have a low/no cost > >> option > >> for the average company. Some of you will likely have to redesign your > > > > Marlon, THERE IS NO AVERAGE COMPANY! That's the whole problem in a > > nutshell. The AVERAGE is going to be very small, since the vast > > majority > > of networks (by number) are little bitty things with 1 to 20 people > > informally sharing something. > > Grin. Again Mark, you are manufacturing a boogyman out of a shadow. > Average is AVERAGE. We all have routers, we all have servers, we all have > customers etc. That's average. Whether you have Cisco, Imagestream, MT or > like I used to do, run FreeBSD routers, won't make much difference. I have none of those. Nor have I any servers. > > > > >> networks a bit. That won't be all bad as you'll also have more ability > >> to > >> understand what's happening on your network and to stop things like > >> broadcast storms etc. > > > > I built my network right to begin with. I have no issues whatsoever with > > broadcast storms or otherwise. I only have to deal with things like > > virus > > and malware infected clients. > > Same thing. And guess what, the same choke points you use to either find or > shut them down, are the ones that you need for CALEA. Cool eh? Doesn't exist. Sorry. There isn't a single router on my network. Not a one. And it's not bridged, either. It's 100% RF from my provider to the client. 100%. No ethernet, no linux or freebsd boxes, no routers. > >> You guys really do have to stop panicking! You're scaring the stuffing > > out > >> of too many people. This isn't a bad law and it's doesn't have to be > >> horribly expensive. > > > > You still do not get it. IT IS WRONG for them to transfer law enforcement > > duties to us, for their convenience. Dangit Marlon, it's just as if the > > cops demanded the gas stations GIVE them all the gas their cars need, and > > that the restaurants feed them for free and mechanics fix the cars for > > free, > > ISP's give them internet for free, telcos give them phones for free, blah, > > blah, blah. > > Mark, do you lock your door? Take the key out of your pickup at night? Did > you ever put up a fence? No. > > Now you're just being silly. Arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm telling it how it is. > > > > > And darnit, I want to scare the stuffing out of EVERYONE so they'll stop > > being passive fools and STAND UP FOR THEMSELVES, instead of being wiped > > out > > like lemmings. > > Who's being passive? Passive is sitting in a corner hoping that the roof > isn't falling in. WISPA's being passive. In fact, it's being downright hostile to small operators. > > Mark, honestly, you're barking up the wrong tree here. Most people here > don't have a problem with stuff like CALEA. We have a problem with spectrum > auctions vs. unlicensed. We have a problem with the current certifications > rules as they're applied to us. Those other problems... are nothing compared to CALEA. > > You want to do something Mark? Write up some letters that we can sigh onto. > Give us something to support. A general feeling of uneasyness isn't > something that most of us have time or patience for. I see. > > > > >> > >> MOST of us will likely have hybrid plans in place. Some of the work > >> we'll > >> do ourselves with our routers, servers etc. Some of the work we'll > > contract > >> out to people like Bearhill. > > > > And who can afford a TTP? Maybe you can. I don't even collect a > > paycheck. Where the hell do you think that money will come from? > > Gads. > > Have you completely forgotten what it was like to start up? Just hanging > > on by your teeth, when you had to buy stuff in 1's and 2's and 5's > > because > > that's ALL THERE WAS in the bank and all there was going to be? You > > never > > had to ask people for 10 days or 30 days now and then on a bill? You > > think > > money just grows on trees and we're all swimming in the falling leaves? > > I know exactly what it's like. Things aren't a panic every other day > anymore. But I still can't gut a $10,000 check and not wonder how high > it'll bounce. > > Mark, what does it cost to use a TTP for an intercept? Have you checked > with our nice new vendor member? Bearhill. Have you shot Tim a note and > asked what the WISPA member pricing is? Do you have real DATA? Or do you > just have emotions running wild? it doesn't matter. I can't use a TTP unless I spend thousands of dollars to redesign my network. Of course, you knew that, right? That's why you're arguing with me about these things? -- WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
