All right - here it is - I am done and this is all I will say!
Lonnie - how are you with all your resources helping the CALEA effort?
Come
to think about it - how are you helping with getting your StarOS and
hardware FCC certified for the USA WISP? You are good to point a finger
here
today, but you aren't any help in even supporting those that have
supported
you for years! There are many B I G wireless operators that praise you
and
you're OS and I have yet to hear how you are going to assist getting
these
businesses legal and yet you want to pound WISPA board for Mark K's multi
thousand comments on list that was absolutely driving the majority
insane? I
didn't ever say he didn't have a point - - but to make that point 77
times a
day is a bit much - wouldn't you say? I have to admit I complained to the
board, but they were quick to point out that he has a right to his
opinion
much to my chagrin.
Lets get down the nitty gritty - what are you doing to assist us in our
problem of CALEA? You won't even pony up the $1000.00 (just like Mark
K.'s
membership dues) to be a member of WISPA, but you will bitch and moan and
groan about what the board members (who did pay)have to say as well the
paid members opinions. You haven't even bothered to assist the GOB's or
the
not so GOB's who run your OS, (built their entire network off StarOS) get
legal. I think (personally) if your gear ain't FCC certified - you ought
not
to be allowed to sale it in the USA. I will take it a step further than
that
- - - - no I won't as it includes a horse, dragging, nakedness and a
town
full of people to witness!!
I guess I will self impose a banishment now - how many days Harnish?
Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
Rayville, La.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief)
www.mac-tel.us (VoIP sales)
318.728.8600
318.728.9600
318.303.4182
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 4:47 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on-list
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lonnie Nunweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What is WISPA? was Promotion of services on-list
>
>
> >I am not saying that CALEA is not real and I actually agree that is
> > required, BUT, did the group have to agree with the rushed timing and
> > especially agree to meet a standard that was not even defined?
>
> Within the law, it's up to us to define the standard.
>
> We met with the "customer" that can give us safe harbor status if they
> like
> our solution. We also took the time and money needed to make sure that
> we
> could get the RIGHT answers to as many questions as we could.
>
> >
> > They could have argued for some prior consultation to make sure the
> > requirements were not a hardship for their membership.
>
> And how would anyone out here know what we did in that regard? For the
> reccord, *I* talked to the FBI about CALEA and it's impact on our
> industry
> segment. *THEY* knew that there would be problems with the independant
> operators but didn't know who to talk to and hadn't yet taken the time
> to
> find out.
>
> We're building a standard so that compliance won't create a hardship
> for
> our
> industry.
>
> > They owed that
> > duty to the members.
>
> We fullfilled that "duty" as you call it. We did tell them that CALEA,
> as
> things stand, is a disaster for our industry. They know and
> understand.
> That's one of the reasons that they are working so closely with us to
> build
> a more affordable/lower impact solution for those that need it.
>
> > Instead they mostly tried to beat up anybody who
> > spoke against any aspect of it, and as you just tried, to say the
> > speaker uppers were acting like hippies from the 60's and merely
> > wasting time.
>
> Sigh. Beating up? I don't think so. Sure, we called a spade a spade
> when
> people said that we were wasting our time in the wrong direction. The
> time
> to protest is past, we have to comply now. People fought the battle
> and
> lost. It's law and it's not gonna go away. So now what. What can we
> DO???
> (other than jumping up and down pitching a fit???)
>
> > I believe in Government and Anarchy would be horrible,
> > so at some point Government must be prepared to listen to people,
> > especially an organization that purports to represent a large group
> > of
> > people. That is WISPA and that was what the group was organized for.
>
> No, we were organized to make our industry better. Part of that means
> that
> we're here to make our operators better. Part of that means that they
> have
> the knowledge and skills needed to comply with the laws as they exist.
> There is NO way to change this law in time to deal with the compliance
> issue.
>
> Some are content to sit on the sidelines and toss gas on the fires.
> Others
> are more interested in building fireproof houses. When we're working
> from
> a
> platform built on rocks instead of sand, we can be much more powerful.
>
> No sense in wasting time fighting on the sand when solid ground is just
> a
> few steps away. Granted, the solid ground in the case of CALEA is
> rocky
> and
> scary, it's also a bit of a hike to get to it. But once there the
> ground
> is
> indeed solid. And, once we're done with our work, there will be a nice
> easy
> to walk bridge to the solid ground. You'll still have to walk there
> but
> it'll be a much easier trip.
>
> >
> > Heck, to come back from that meeting and simply parrot everything
> > that
> > had been told to the committee was a waste of time and money to even
> > go to the meeting. To achieve what they achieved could have been
> > done
> > with a conference call, or simply done nothing.
>
> I can't believe anyone just said this out loud! Wowsers.
>
> We WENT there to learn answers to the questions that people have.
> Bringing
> those answers back was one of the goals of the trip! sheesh
>
> Guess we should have just kept our heads in the sand and pretended that
> we
> didn't know our asses were on fire. I'm floored by that paragraph.
>
> >
> > The Telcos would never have sent a group and accepted an outcome like
> > that.
>
> Um, that's completely wrong. They've also been working closely with
> the
> FBI
> on CALEA compliance. As an industry and in some cases individually.
>
> >
> > I'll drop back to lurk mode now. The level of hurt feelings is
> > growing, as evidenced by my private in basket.
>
> Hurt feelings? No. Not me anyway. I'm certainly flabergasted though.
> The
> idea that someone that's not willing to actively help, not involved in
> any
> of the processes would ever talk in the certain terms of one that's
> been
> there and done that isn't what I'd expect from you. You make it sound
> as
> though you (and others arguing this same line) have been privy to all
> of
> the
> backgound information that those of us riding in the front of the bus
> can
> see. We're up here busy steering the bus around the corners, making
> sure
> that we don't go over the cliff. And there are those looking out the
> back
> of the bus telling us we're idiots for not taking the road that we
> happen
> to
> know is a dead end.
>
> Don't worry about me. I'll just mentally close that rear window
> between
> the
> pick-up truck cab and those sitting in back. grin
> marlon
>
> >
> > Lonnie
> >
> >
> > On 5/17/07, Jeff Broadwick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Lonnie,
> >>
> >> I've been quiet through this whole thing, but I have to speak up
> >> here.
> >>
> >> CALEA is a reality here, and I believe that something like it will
> >> soon
> >> be a
> >> reality in Canada. Shouting at the Capitol building from outside
> >> the
> >> fence
> >> may feel good, but it gets nothing accomplished. The FACT is that
> >> if
> you
> >> want to be a service provider you need to have a plan for CALEA
> >> compliance.
> >> It's everyone's right to say that it doesn't apply to them, but that
> >> doesn't
> >> make them correct...and if they say it loud and often enough, others
> may
> >> get
> >> the wrong idea as well.
> >>
> >> We are involved heavily on the CALEA committee. Has everything gone
> >> exactly
> >> the way we would like? No, but that's the nature of any committee
> >> (and
> >> Wispa is really a large committee), and we are ok with that.
> >> Overall,
> >> we've
> >> been pleased to be part of forming Wispa's direction for CALEA
> >> compliance.
> >> I believe that we are further along in our efforts, and that Wispa
> >> is
> >> further along in the overall effort, because we joined in the
> >> process.
> >>
> >> I don't think you are a freeloader. Everything I see and hear says
> that
> >> you
> >> are a great guy and a fine businessman. You have been contributing
> >> to
> >> lists
> >> for years and anyone who has been around knows that.
> >>
> >> I hope that you join in, you'd be a terrific addition to the team.
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> On
> >> Behalf Of Lonnie Nunweiler
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 2:55 PM
> >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What is WISPA? was Promotion of services
> >> on-list
> >>
> >> I'm going out on a limb and will voice some things that have been
> >> suppressed.
> >>
> >> I get your point that you think I am a freeloader and do not
> contribute.
> >> My
> >> problem for not joining is not a money one, but rather one of
> principle.
> >>
> >> I did get involved early on and saw that there was still an old
> >> guard
> of
> >> the
> >> good old boys. They played favorites early on and still do.
> >> Is it proper to support that? It would be very BAD for the Industry
> >> if
> >> one
> >> were to push and fight the GOB's, but, and this in not an excuse, I
> >> do
> >> not
> >> have to time for such fights. There are other more important things
> >> to
> >> do,
> >> so I lurk, and occasionally chime in when I feel something has been
> >> really
> >> missed or has gone overboard. It is better for me not to get into
> fights
> >> and the Organization does need that either.
> >>
> >> Do I support WISPA? Partly. When things like CALEA come up and
> >> people
> >> are
> >> sent to talk with the FBI and FCC, what is their game plan?
> >> What are they trying to do for the membership? All I saw was a few
> >> people
> >> were star struck that they actually talked the HEAD of the FBI for
> CALEA.
> >> BIG DEAL. Those people put their pants on one leg at a time like we
> all
> >> do.
> >> Did you tell these guys what would be best for the Industry? Did
> >> you
> >> even
> >> know what was good for the Industry? Or did you take your hat in
> >> your
> >> hand
> >> and come back and use all sort of tactics to get people to sign that
> they
> >> would be ready for CALEA compliance, when in fact nobody even knew
> >> what
> >> that
> >> would require?
> >>
> >> I feel that WISPA should have taken a much harder line on that and
> other
> >> issues. Any members who spoke against what the FBI and FCC told the
> >> WISPA
> >> group were quickly put down and isolated. It was disgusting to
> >> watch.
> >> It
> >> certainly was not a functioning democracy. It was pretty heavy
> >> handed.
> >>
> >> In short, I have not seen the organization really go to bat for the
> >> membership. I can only imagine the crap that would hit the fan if
> >> the
> >> FBI
> >> and FCC were to give the Telcos the same sort of treatment with
> >> regards
> >> to
> >> time and unknown requirements that they gave to the WISPA people.
> >> Sure
> >> you
> >> don't have the funds, but do you compromise everything until you get
> the
> >> funds? Or do you stand up for what is right and people either
> >> support
> >> you
> >> or not? My suspicion is you'll get the support if you represent
> >> what
> >> people
> >> want. People vote with their feet and pocketbooks. I've seen a lot
> >> of
> >> good
> >> people leave.
> >> I've seen a lot of good people forced out because the GOB's could
> >> not
> >> stand
> >> them. And I've seen a lot of good people (mostly everybody on this
> list)
> >> not support WISPA financially. Does that tell you anything? No you
> >> don't
> >> need more Vendors, you need a reality check so you can get more
> members.
> >> This whole idea that you need more Vendors because they pay the most
> is,
> >> well, so commercial sounding. I'm sure that business principles
> >> have
> to
> >> be
> >> used to run and account for things, but to raise money? No, that
> should
> >> not
> >> be a business.
> >>
> >>
> >> Lonnie
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/17/07, Peter R. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > (In response to Lonnie and Mac)
> >> >
> >> > 1) It takes money for an organization to do things.
> >> > Sometimes vendors put up that money so that their customer base
> >> > thrives.
> >> > (Some times they do not).
> >> >
> >> > 2) It's always hard to get dues-paying members, especially when
> >> > the
> >> > most value is the listserv.
> >> > (Again, it ought to cost something to be here. If they want free,
> >> > go
> >> > to ISP-Wireless).
> >> >
> >> > 3) Be careful how you represent your relationship to vendors.
> >> > This is how one org received the reputation for being an RBOC
> >> > tool.
> >> > You need a pro-member reputation.
> >> >
> >> > 4) That said, how many people on this list post more than once a
> >> > week
> >> > and are NOT members?
> >> > How many lurk - read every message - but aren't members?
> >> >
> >> > 5) Most here don't understand the energy, effort, time and money
> >> > it
> >> > takes to run an association.
> >> > If you give a hoot at all, you spend 2 to 5 hours daily on issues,
> >> > messages, board and committee stuff.
> >> > Then travel to DC. Travel to some shows to get the WISPA name
> >> > under
> >> > the lights.
> >> > PR costs money, but to date are we doing any?
> >> > Rent, utilities and salary even for a part-time administrator
> >> > would
> be
> >> > $30K per year (if outsourced to a certified association management
> >> > company).
> >> >
> >> > 6) The problem becomes when there are parties here who do not 100%
> >> > agree with the direction of the org.
> >> > (And we have seen that problem recently). Unfortunately, the
> >> > answer
> >> > for those that do not whole-heartedly agree is to pack their stuff
> and
> >> > leave. (Now that is real adult). This association is by and for
> >> > the
> >> > members -- to do everything to help you thrive and survive. You
> >> > as
> >> > WISP's have responsibilities too - to comment, join, volunteer,
> steer,
> >> > and row the boat. If you don't want to do any (some) of that, why
> >> > get
> >> > mad at the people and the direction? What did you do to steer?
> >> >
> >> > [Note} And PLEASE don't give me the I'm-too-freaking-busy or
> >> > I'm-too-poor to help. That is an excuse. If you use excuses, then
> >> > you
> >> > might as well close shop now. Just fess up: I'm too selfish or It
> >> > is
> >> > easier to be a back seat driver. (As a back seat driver, you don't
> pay
> >> > for gas, can point out all the short comings, and claim you
> >> > weren't
> >> > steering.)
> >> >
> >> > 7) If you are going to be in the Wireless Broadband Industry next
> >> > year, join WISPA now. The more members, the more voice. Plus you
> >> > get
> >> > to vote for the new board.
> >> >
> >> > 7b) If you aren't going to join, and continue to be a free-loader,
> >> > then don't complain that you don't like the direction. No potshots
> >> > from the bleachers, okay? If you don't like something, volunteer
> >> > to
> >> > work
> >> on it.
> >> > Be a part of the Solution, not a piece of the problem.
> >> >
> >> > Whew!
> >> >
> >> > Now, go sign up a customer, so you can join WISPA, since one
> >> > client
> >> > will pay for your membership dues.
> >> >
> >> > Peter Radizeski
> >> > RAD-INFO, Inc.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > WISPA Wireless List: [email protected]
> >> >
> >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >> >
> >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Lonnie Nunweiler
> >> Valemount Networks Corporation
> >> http://www.star-os.com/
> >> --
> >> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected]
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected]
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lonnie Nunweiler
> > Valemount Networks Corporation
> > http://www.star-os.com/
> > --
> > WISPA Wireless List: [email protected]
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
> --
> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected]
>
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>
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