Not to argue with you JohnnyO,  :) but the last time I hired
professionals (just recently
in fact) to do something I could well have done myself, it was because I
was lazy
and cheap. I didn't have the time, nor the inclination to do something
myself, so I
hired a "professional" crew to do it for me. And I do mean professional.
A highly
experienced, regionally known, and well respected in the industry, firm.
I was there
to watch the work being done, and I can tell you that had safety,
efficiency, and
getting the job done according to all relevant "best current practices"
been the
criteria, the amateur crew I would have hired had I wanted to spend the time
money and energy to do it myself would have been a far better choice.

I may be lazy and cheap, but that is really irrelevant to the thread at
hand.

John

JohnnyO wrote:
>
> I think magnetic mounts are used by lazy / cheap people who do not
> want to spend the $$ nor the time to do it right. Get a professional
> welder... Be done with it, sleep at night. A magnetic mount would
> never fly with our approval board on our water tower systems.....
>
> JohnnyO
>
> ps - I have a few friends on this list that use magnetic mounts.....
> they are lazy / cheap :) LOL
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. Vogel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 10:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
>
>
>> I don't intend to ruffle any feathers, nor do I direct this at any one
>> individual
>> but, the number of assumptions made and the knee-jerk reactions and
>> false statements being made in response to a suggestion that
>> magnetic mounts can be successfully used in some circumstances is both
>> amazing
>> and somewhat disappointing. I would have hoped that we could have a
>> more "professional" atmosphere on this list.
>>
>> "Best practices" if it in this case is taken to mean to use a
>> commercially available
>> professionally engineered mount which has been engineered to "withstand
>> 100 mph wind loads" (to use an arbitrary example) instead of using a
>> mounting
>> system which will withstand much more than that, albeit not a
>> "professionally
>> engineered" solution is just wrong. I would rather go with the stronger,
>> more stable solution rather than compromise on the integrity of the
>> mounting
>> to attain the engineer's label. Whether that is "best" or not I suppose
>> would
>> depend upon whether your goal was safety or following the "norm".
>>
>> It has been suggested in another post that nothing should ever be
>> mounted
>> on a tower that some idiot might at some point decided to use as a
>> tie-off
>> anchor point. That is a good idea in practice, but how many of us have
>> attached
>> a lightweight yagi antenna to a tower leg, assuming that nobody would
>> ever
>> be foolish enough to use it to tie off to, or even use as a foothold or
>> handhold?
>> Are we supposed to only use yagi antennas engineered to withstand
>> improper
>> use in case some idiot decides to tie off to one? What about omni
>> antennas consisting
>> of a thin metal rod, possibly encased in a small fiberglass tube? The
>> point is
>> that while safety should be a top priority, the goal of never mounting
>> something
>> on a tower that could at some point be mis-used as an anchor or support
>> point
>> is an unrealistic goal, which I would go so far as to say that those who
>> propose
>> such a goal have not been able to meet themselves, assuming that they
>> have
>> actually mounted equipment on towers.
>>
>> As far as mounting heavy stuff which might fall off and hurt someone, I
>> would
>> assume that the reaction(s) in this thread would indicate that
>> non-penetrating
>> roof mounts, chimmney mount brackets, clamping to roof vents not
>> specifically
>> engineered to withstand such use, and all other forms of mounting which
>> might
>> under some conditions fail and allow the "heavy" objects to fall
>> would be
>> outlawed in your town were you given the regulatory authority to do
>> so. Or,
>> perhaps because they were "designed by professionals" they would pass
>> muster in your book in spite of the fact that any fool looking at
>> them could
>> imagine a likely scenario in which they would fail.
>>
>> I have seen numerous "professionally engineered" solutions which I
>> would not
>> use in a given circumstance because of the likelihood of it failing, and
>> have
>> in several instances used a solution designed by an "amateur" (me) so
>> that
>> I could rest easier at night, knowing that I have done what I could to
>> mitigate
>> the actual risk to life and property. Sometimes that means doing
>> things in a
>> way that is "out of the norm", which scares some people. That they are
>> scared
>> by that which is not "normal" without a rational basis for their fear is
>> disheartening. Many rules and regulations have been foisted upon us and
>> have limited the options available to those less suited for the job
>> at hand
>> simply because of those irrational fears.
>>
>> I have seen mounts which were "professionally" mounted to towers using
>> welded studs (either welded to existing towers or in some cases to
>> towers
>> being constructed) using small diameter bolts which were definitely not
>> something that I would trust my life to, and other mounts that were well
>> engineered and would likely withstand likely wind loads on the equipment
>> that they were supporting, yet which will probably fail in hurricane or
>> tornado
>> force winds. Are these in-appropriate? should we engineer everything to
>> withstand +500mph wind loads? Should all magnets be outlawed? (I see
>> lots of magnetically mounted omni antennas on vehicles traveling at high
>> speed down public roadways, can you imagine that???) I bet some of those
>> responding negatively to magnetic mounts even have magnets holding stuff
>> on their refrigerators, one of the highest use and traffic areas in the
>> typical
>> home.
>>
>> I can show numerous examples of solutions designed and built by
>> amateurs which in the final analysis are safer and better  solutions
>> than
>> commercially available, professionally designed solutions to the same
>> problem, but  the "amateur" solutions do not have the blessing of the
>> designed by professionals label. Does that make them inappropriate? In
>> the views of some people, sadly, the answer is yes.
>>
>> All of that being said, whenever one is considering their options for
>> mounting
>> equipment on a tower, safety should be a top priority (and I would add
>> should
>> take precedence over having a "designed by professionals" label) and one
>> should never mount equipment in a fashion which is likely to cause
>> serious injury
>> or death to innocent members of the community.
>>
>> John
>>
>> Clint Ricker wrote:
>>>
>>> Not to ruffle any feathers and not directed at anyone, but lack of
>>> problems
>>> on a single install does not always coincide with proper approaches on
>>> this
>>> sort of thing.  Best practices are just that--the best approach(es) to
>>> doing
>>> technical work--there are also bad practices, not so good practices,
>>> it may
>>> work practices, it should hold practices, and we'll deal with that
>>> later
>>> practices.  They often will get the job done, but, just so that
>>> we're all
>>> clear on this, none of the later category, no matter how many one-off
>>> implementations are functional to some degree or another, will ever be
>>> "best
>>> practices".
>>>
>>> Personally, if I was in your town or especially on any sort of a
>>> planning
>>> board or whatever, I'd be fairly nervous about the idea of big heavy
>>> objects
>>> being held up by magnets, especially when (seemingly) it is being
>>> done by
>>> people who don't necessarily have a lot of experience with calculating
>>> load
>>> bearing stuff with magnets.  The fact that you hold up anecdotal
>>> evidence as
>>> a basis for its validity rather than "it's engineered to withstand
>>> 100Mph
>>> winds or whatever pretty much illustrates my point--this is just a bad
>>> idea.  Just keep in mind that one falling antenna that kills one
>>> person is
>>> enough to bring out major liability lawsuits that you will not be
>>> covered
>>> against, not to mention bringing some fairly major legislative
>>> regulation
>>> and licensing requirements for mounting affecting the whole industry.
>>> If I
>>> knew that antennas in my area were be magnet-mounted by amateurs, I
>>> would be
>>> personally leading the charge for some regulation on this.
>>>
>>> Ok, sorry for any offense.  I'm not trying to flame anyone, but this
>>> is just
>>> not a good idea.
>>>
>>> -Clint Ricker
>>> Kentnis Technologies
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/12/07, Ray & Jean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Carl
>>>> We used one from Tessco that has a collar that bolts around the
>>>> vent on
>>>> top
>>>> of tank and adjustable legs for leveling.It has been up there 4 years
>>>> with
>>>> no problems.It was easy to install approx 1hour.
>>>> Ray Hill
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "J. Vogel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 6:12 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water Tower Mounts
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Carl Shivers wrote:
>>>> >> We are going to be mounting Panel Sector antennas to 2 Water
>>>> Towers.
>>>> One
>>>> >> tower is ideal with a rail that has been designed for pipe
>>>> mounting.
>>>> The
>>>> >> other is not so kind. It simply has a ladder up the side and
>>>> over the
>>>> >> top,
>>>> >> no catwalk. We were thinking about using one of those 170 lbs.
>>>> Water
>>>> >> Tower
>>>> >> mounts. This means we either have to get a welder up there to weld
>>>> the
>>>> >> plates or come up with an industrial epoxy solution.
>>>> > I have successfully used magnets on a couple of towers for 2 years
>>>> now...
>>>> >
>>>> > I don't completely trust them, so I also run a safety cable
>>>> around the
>>>> > mast
>>>> > and anchor it to a solid projection on the tower so that if the
>>>> magnets
>>>> > did
>>>> > turn loose, the mast wouldn't hit the ground, but in two years, and
>>>> > through
>>>> > several thunderstorms and pretty good winds, the magnets haven't
>>>> shifted
>>>> > a bit that I can see.
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> >
>>>> > John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> > http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
>>>> > Vogel Enterprises, LLC
>>>> > Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas
>>>> >
>>>> >
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>>>> 7/10/2007
>>>> > 5:44 PM
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>>
>> -- 
>>
>> John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
>> Vogel Enterprises, LLC
>> Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas
>>
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-- 

John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.vogent.net   620-754-3907
Vogel Enterprises, LLC
Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas
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