Alan,

There is a second manufacture of 900 Mini-Pci cards which is Zcomax. The two
(ubnt and Zcomax don't talk because of different center frequencies. Zcomax is
what Tranzeo is using in there 900 products, so this may be a good way to go,
with the ability to have pre-manufactured client radios. What I have found
with any Atheros card running 5Mhz channels, is that if you scan from another,
you will see the first card transmitting on a channel about 20mhz away. This
transmit is about 20dB less than the primary, but still prevalently there. I
think you could see some issues because of this, and I wonder what frequency
that ends up being when the 900 card is a re-badge of 2.4. To explain this
better, channel 6 on 2.4 is 906 on the ubiquity cards I believe. If I then
scan and see a signature at 2457, what frequency is that on the 900
conversion? It is probably in the high 800 range by my estimate. There are
definitely some issues there.

Also, I have seen better connections with Motorola 900 than with the put
togethers. I do think your idea is something worth while, and I've thought
about something similar myself. I am also familiar with the Muni-market, and
the downfalls, and the good ideas of it. If you remember me, you know I worked
for one of them. In fact, I worked under you I believe!!

Good to see you back.

Joel White
NexGenAccess Inc.
www.nexgenaccess.com
740-513-4122

NexGenAccess Inc. <http://www.nexgenaccess.com>


---------- Original Message -----------
From: "Gino Villarini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 12:49:35 -0400
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks

> You 900 idea souns interesting, but youll need a 900 muni client and/or
> 900 pcmcia card for customers
> 
> Gino A. Villarini
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> On Behalf Of Allen Marsalis Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 12:17 
> PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Thoughts on 900MHz mesh networks
> 
> I was a WISP in the late 90s and early 00s. Some of you may know 
> me.  It's good to see many familiar faces still here.  In recent 
> years, I have pursued new interests but I keep thinking back on my 
> experiences as a WISP.  I had a lot of good times back then.  I'm 
> thinking about creeping back into the WISP business.
> 
> After I sold in 2004, I followed a new trend in wireless in the 
> press called "muni wireless" promoted by manufacturers such as Strix 
> and Tropos.  This concept has taken some major blows in the press 
> this month:
> 
> <http://wifinetnews.com/archives/007869.html>http://wifinetnews.com/arch
> ives/007869.html
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20521155/
> <http://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?newsid=41788&id=e9381817-0593-
> 417a-86 
> 39-c4c53e2a2a10&view=news>http://web20.telecomtv.com/pages/?ne...2a10&vi
> ew=news
> 
> http://www.unstrung.com/document.asp...ng_sitedefault
> <http://www.alleyinsider.com/2007/08/as-earthlink-el.html>http://www.all
> eyinsider.com/2007/08/...thlink-el.html
> 
> http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/6120
> 
> This hits close to home because the company who bought my WISP
> 
> (ShreveNet) boasted being the largest WISP with the largest muni 
> WIFI network in the nation in Tempe AZ (NeoReach aka Kite aka 
> MobilePro) which sold these properties recently to Gobility.  (Big 
> Yawn)..
> 
> <http://www.bbwexchange.com/wireless_isp/>http://www.bbwexchange.com/wir
> eless_isp/
> 
> I'm certainly am not posting this thread to defend or even discuss 
> the somewhat failed muni wireless concept.  Some say it was a 
> failure because of the model rather than technology, caused by 
> giving away free service to the anchor tenant (the city) and so 
> forth.  Whatever... I couldn't care less about the past or Earthlink 
> or Google, or MobilePro or huge muni wifi networks.
> 
> However I am fascinated by the mesh technology in general, 
> especially after witnessing the old Nokia "collapsible" bridged mesh 
> networks of the 90s.  LOL, a lot has changed since then.  I often 
> wonder how Dave Peterson and Ultramesh/locustworld turned out.  Once 
> upon a time, he sold product to a WISP near me in Vivian LA to build 
> the first mesh network in the US. He ended up with some heavy debt.  
> Also I knew of a WISP in Leesville LA using Wave Wireless (Speedcom) 
> mesh gear with pretty good technical results, that is, for a single 
> radio system.  I'm thinking more along the lines of multiple radio systems.
> 
> I am brainstorming a new WISP model and I am seeking feedback and 
> advice.  The concept goes something like this.  The muni network 
> model touted in the press had many flaws as I see it.  Coming into 
> an urban market after DSL and Cable has to be a steep uphill climb. 
> Yet in 2007 there are still rural areas with no high speed solution 
> in sight, particularly in the wooded Southeast where the old 
> wireless models don't always work.  I posted the following 
> statistics to the wireless boards nearly a decade ago as the results 
> of my first 2.4GHz network.
> 
> In my area (Shreveport LA) 65 out of 100 business surveys came back 
> positive (35 negative) for LOS. This was made possible by multistory 
> buildings and large parking lots (lack of trees) Yet for residential 
> service, only 5 came back positive while 95 came back 
> negative.  Clearly there is a tree issue in many residential parts 
> of the country.  This is the market that has few if any options as 
> many keep hoping for DSL and cablemodem. Chainsaw jokes grow old 
> fast around here.
> 
> Traditionally the tools for Foliar NLOS have been (a) the use of low 
> frequency spectrum to penetrate through the offending object, and (b)
>  route around the offending object by hopping around it, (c) 
> increase the power to try and punch through the offending objects. 
>  Add to these maybe OFDM to use multipath interference to our 
> advantage but I see that as an Urban solution (reflections off 
> buildings) more than a foliar solution (reflections off trees)  The 
> 700mw SR9 combined with a cheap SBCs and appropriate TCP routing 
> protocols appears to go a long way to make new things possible.
> 
> Please imagine a muni wireless mesh network that utilizes 900MHz 
> cards instead of 5.8 and 2.4 cards.  Instead of nodes being 1000 
> feet apart atop light poles, they are now spread 1 or 2 miles apart. 
>  Instead of it taking 15 or 20 nodes to cover one square mile, 
> perhaps one node could cover 1 to 4 square miles.  Could this be a 
> solution for wooded areas with low to moderate population densities? 
>  In other words, do you know anyone who has ever built a mesh 
> network using SR9s and SBCs with multiple radios to achieve 
> redundancy and ubiquitous coverage for small towns in the Southeast? 
>  And using no towers by the way, LOL?  As I see it, the SR9 has 4 
> non-overlapping channels at 5MHz each.  Thats all I need. (I think)
> 
> No hub and spoke POPs off towers, please.  Been there done that. I 
> don't think I could take that anymore. I'm not a climber and don't 
> wish to hire any climbers unless it is for aggregate backhaul PtP 
> which is fine. This post has nothing to do with PtP shots. But any 
> thoughts or feedback on 900MHz meshing is appreciated.  I do see a 
> few problems with this concept, however I am at the stage where I 
> think some feedback might be helpful.  I'm hoping some of you 
> followed the muni wireless trend and gear from Strix, Tropos, Belair,
>  etc.  Not all their ideas were wrong or bad.
> 
> One last question or two if I may.  Is there only one manufacturer 
> of 900MHz mini-pci cards? (Ubiquiti SR9) Also, do you think it is it 
> too late in 2007 to start a WISP?  ;)  Last, would 700MHz system 
> eventually creep in over a few years and eat my lunch?
> 
> Thank you all and as always, good luck to all WISPs!
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Allen Marsalis
> am @ bandwise dot com
> 
> P.S.   After all these years, I still cringe when lightning strikes 
> and I think of you guys all the time.  :)  It is certainly good to 
> see the WISP industry moving along and so many familiar names still 
> in the business.  I wish you all continued success!
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
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>   www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE 
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** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 **
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