You're special, Chuck. :-p
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -------------------------------------------------- From: "Chuck McCown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 2:07 PM To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont > Oh, ice will indeed stick to an air-x. > Can you spot it in these photos... > I have been doing wind and solar for 30 years. > There are those with frozen batts... > And then there is me. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont > > >>I have used a AIR-X for 4 years now. The blades are a composite plastic >> and the ice WILL NOT stick to them. I've been there when the pole >> supporting the generator had nearly an inch of ice on it and the antennas >> were all coated too thick to break off, and the genset blades were ice >> free. >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> <insert witty tagline here> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chuck McCown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 10:13 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont >> >> >>> Wind generators are good if you have plenty of wind and no ice. >>> Our problem has been that we need their power during the worst weather. >>> And that is when they fail. They wear out or get loaded with ice and >>> tear >>> apart. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Randy Cosby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:04 AM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont >>> >>> >>>> Good point :) It's not too severe down here in So Utah. >>>> >>>> Randy >>>> >>>> >>>> Chuck McCown wrote: >>>>> They must not be subject to ice storms. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Randy Cosby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 10:22 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Remote Powered Access Pont >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> We recently visited a solar-powered site that had a supplementary >>>>>> wind-generation system. Seemed to work well for them to have wind >>>>>> power >>>>>> when the weather is bad, solar when it is good. Pretty windy place >>>>>> as >>>>>> well. >>>>>> >>>>>> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Here is a note I posted several days ago on the Motorola list about >>>>>>> solar >>>>>>> powering. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Chuck McCown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:17 AM >>>>>>> To: Dave Crim >>>>>>> Subject: Re: solar >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Continuing on a bit, lets say you have 5 lousy days and one good >>>>>>> sunny >>>>>>> day >>>>>>> followed by 5 more lousy days. That one sunny day needs to store >>>>>>> enough >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> charge the batts totally. 75 watts * 5 days * 24hours * 1.25 >>>>>>> (batter >>>>>>> efficiency loss) + (75watts * 24 hours) current day = 13050 watt >>>>>>> hours. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To make 13050 watt hours in one 10 hour day you go: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 13050/.707*10=1845 watts. You need 1845 watts of panel to do this. >>>>>>> That >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> 24 times the load. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, my rule of thumb of 20 times the load is still a little shy of >>>>>>> being >>>>>>> conservative. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The thing that saves you in a situation like this is a massive >>>>>>> battery. >>>>>>> A >>>>>>> one month battery with 20 X panels will never fail due to a lack of >>>>>>> sun >>>>>>> energy. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A 2 week battery and 10X panels will fail now and then every single >>>>>>> winter. >>>>>>> Sometimes for several days at a time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Chuck McCown >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 9:09 AM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subject: solar >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Several thing you may not be including. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Assuming this panel is somewhere in this neck of the woods, >>>>>>> December >>>>>>> 21 >>>>>>> has 10 hours of time between runrise and sunset. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But if you don't have tracking mounts (most don't) the amount of >>>>>>> energy >>>>>>> you get out of a panel follows the first half of a sine wave. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To estimate that energy, you integrate the area under the curve. >>>>>>> That >>>>>>> will equal .707 of what you thought you were going to get. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, let's say you put up a 500 watt panel, your daily sunny output >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> an average of 353 watts. The sun shines for 10 hours solid and you >>>>>>> store >>>>>>> 3530 watt hours in your battery. Now your load is on during the >>>>>>> daytime, >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> if you have a 75 watt load, you are now able to make 278 watts. You >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> down to 2780 watt hours. You put in 2780 watt hours into a battery >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> get maybe 80% back out. So you have 2224 watt hour available (if >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> drain >>>>>>> the batts which is not good for them). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You have 14 hours of darkness and actually more like 16 hours >>>>>>> before >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> panel starts making any useful amount of energy. 16*75=1200 watt >>>>>>> hours. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But that next day is not sunny, there is frost and a light coating >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> snow. The whole works dies 16 hours later. About 9 pm. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One other note, you only want to draw your batteries down no more >>>>>>> than >>>>>>> 10% >>>>>>> each night or they won't last long. That means a minimum of 12000 >>>>>>> watt >>>>>>> hours. If that is a 12 volt system, 1000 amp hours. If it is a 24 >>>>>>> volt >>>>>>> system, 500 amp hours. And that is a minimum because here we get a >>>>>>> week >>>>>>> with snow and ice and no sun easy, sometimes two weeks. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You really need a generator, less load, or a whole bunch more >>>>>>> batts >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> panels. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Randy Cosby >>>>>> Vice President >>>>>> InfoWest, Inc >>>>>> >>>>>> office: 435-773-6071 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>> >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Randy Cosby >>>> Vice President >>>> InfoWest, Inc >>>> >>>> office: 435-773-6071 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! 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