Who says I'm happy with the status quo of 1.5 or even 6 meg? BTW: muddyfrogwater != Me
Yes, WiMAX is technically better than WiFi, but who says I'm talking about WiFi? If there was a non-crippled WiMAX AP that supported reasonable amounts of bandwidth (40 at a minimum - say with a 20 MHz channel) and was available for $2000 or so, I'd be interested. There isn't nor will there be any time soon, so I'll pass on WiMAX. I just wish Company A would finish their product already so I can actually make product references in my arguments.... assuming what they say is even half true... and yes they are a company that's been around a few years. I don't want to be a "me too" or a last resort. I want to lead the pack. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeff Booher" <jefftho...@fastmail.fm> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 8:12 PM To: <rea...@muddyfrogwater.us>; "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > Mike, > > This once again is not an apples to apples argument but rather apples to > rutabega. Still fruit, but very different fruit :) > > Correct the per AP bandwidth would be higher. However, try loading an > 802.11x system with 100 subscribers. It will choke and the end user > experience will be very bad. It would choke not from bandwidth, but from > simple issues with the scheduler. I don't know of a single 802.11 based > system that loads well to 100 plus subscriber stations. > > Considering Wimax can support these sort of subscriber totals, per sector > in > reality, from a spectral efficency standpoint, in 5.8ghz, on ONE tower you > can support something in the neighboorhood of 240mb/sec in total base > station capacity. ( 34 sectors/120mhz ). So yes, you cant sell many 6/6 > pipes off this base station, but you can sell a heck of a lot of 1.5/1.5 > mb > pipes ( probably around 2400 subscribers ) FROM one tower location. > > Not to mention the stablity of Wimax, which is a lot more stable in > modulation, error rate, latency....that it can support many many voice > over > ip connections. ( our product can support over 300 concurrent calls per > sector ). Also im completely certain that by using a wider RF channel you > increase the required CINR to achieve full modulation, while reducing your > effective range. Wimax has an effective LOS Range @ peak modulation in > 5.8ghz of 10 miles plus. > > So yes its expensive. But it definitely beats legacy systems in many > different areas. What good is 300mb in throughput if you can only go 2 > miles > with it and the probability of interference is extremely high? On a 7mhz > channel you can easily find open spectrum. I understand the business case > issues with Wimax, and Aperto is probably one of the very few companies > that > is sensitive to this issue and is working diligently to find solutions > that > can meet customer needs, so that a residential business case can be met. > We > know that most customers can't afford a 20 month payback, there is no > arugment there. > > Best Regards, > > _ > > Jeff Booher > > Sales Director, North America > www.apertonet.com > > > > > - > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rea...@muddyfrogwater.us [mailto:rea...@muddyfrogwater.us] > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:34 PM > To: jefftho...@fastmail.fm; WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > > Sheesh. How many times must this misinformation be posted before the > snake > > oil gets poured down the drain? > > The better MAC allows you to use a very high percentage of transmission > time > for actual data throughput, and it manages spreading bandwidth nicely > among > the oversubscribed. HOWEVER... > > If you built a 300mbit 802.11 PTMP system, you'd get about 120 total > throughput. > > This means you're using massive amounts of spectrum, but the actual > throughput would be higher than ANY WIMAX setup to date. This snake oil > about the MAC supposedly violating physics and putting 36mbit through an > 18 > mbit pipe is nonsense. 802.11 sucks because the MAC wastes well over > 50% > of the airtime doing nothing at all, has absolutely no means of managing > bandwidth use or dividing use among the users. However, REAL THROUGHPUT > IS > > REAL THROUGHPUT. > > If you have an 18 mbit WIMAX you can support 3 clients consuming a little > less than 6 each. > > Add client #4 asking for 6mbit and the the other three MUST LOSE BANDWIDTH > TO FEED IT. Get it? So, instead of just under 6 each, if they're all > equal priority, all 4 get about 4. Duhh. That's it. You cannot > violate > physics. > > The MAC allows greater efficiency concerning airtime and modulation types > improve throughput vs spectrum consumption. > > NOTHING VIOLATES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS. > > You cannot get 36 through an 18 knothole. Period. > > You guys are all WAY smarter than this, and it's about time the hype based > on comparison of RADIO DATA RATES gets chucked down the toilet. None of > us > > operate that way, and none of care a whit about radio data rates. We're > all about real throughput and good management of our our required business > model of oversubscription. > > > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > <insert witty tagline here> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Booher" <jefftho...@fastmail.fm> > To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> > Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:06 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? > > >> Mike, >> >> It absolutely has nothing to do with throughput. It has to do with the >> scheduling mechanism of the MAC. The reason why 802.11x networks cant >> scale >> like this is the listen before talk protocol. Even basic polling doesn't >> work because the more subs you add, the more latency you add to the >> network. >> >> - >> >> Jeff >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mike Hammett >> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:34 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? >> >> Good efficiencies, not enough throughput per channel, however. >> >> In one thread in one list we have people complaining about not having >> enough >> bandwidth to serve their customers now much less next year or the next >> and >> in the other, we have people excited about an AP that only does 18 >> megabit. >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com> >> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 1:24 PM >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? >> >>> Not enough? You get 18 mbps in a 7 mhz channel >>> >>> >>> Gino A. Villarini >>> g...@aeronetpr.com >>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. >>> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>> On Behalf Of Mike Hammett >>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 2:20 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? >>> >>> More troll than substance but I wouldn't put more than 30 users on a >>> WiMAX AP anyway... not enough bandwidth. >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> http://www.ics-il.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Jeff Booher" <jefftho...@fastmail.fm> >>> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:28 AM >>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? >>> >>>> It is not the same gear by any means. Tranzeo's AP is a micro base >>>> station, that only supports 30 subscribers. >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> Jeff >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>> On >>>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:34 PM >>>> To: WISPA General List >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? >>>> >>>> I'm certainly interested in ptmp. >>>> >>>> The Tranzeo gear is the same as Aperto isn't it? >>>> marlon >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com> >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? >>>> >>>> >>>>> Ligowave its ptp in 3.65... >>>>> >>>>> Might wanna look at tranzeo for 3.65 ptmp >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gino A. Villarini >>>>> g...@aeronetpr.com >>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. >>>>> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Leon Zetekoff >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:32 PM >>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? >>>>> >>>>> Hi Marlon...I'd look at the Ligowave stuff similar in principle to >>> the >>>>> UBNT stuff but I think much better. That's what I'd do today. >>>>> >>>>> Take care leon >>>>> >>>>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >>>>>> I'm looking into this too. >>>>>> >>>>>> So far I can't find a solution for rural towers. A 3 sector >>>>>> install at $20k? Not to service the 20 people that will be able to >>>>>> even see that tower.... >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyone have any better ideas? >>>>>> marlon >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com> >>>>>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" <motor...@wispa.org>; "WISPA >>> General >>>>> List" >>>>>> <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:55 AM >>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] 2nd Look @ 3.65 ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Fellow operators: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any updates on your experienes with 3.65 gear? PMP and PTP? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any updates on experiences with: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Redline, Aperto, Tranzeo, Vecima, Alvarion, Ligowave, Solectek, >>>>>>> Airspan ??? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gino A. Villarini >>>>>>> g...@aeronetpr.com >>>>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. >>>>>>> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> -- >>>>> -------- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> -- >>>>> -------- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> -- >>> ---- >>>> ---- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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