Any ballpark figures?>
Gino A. Villarini [email protected] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Curtis Maurand Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 11:08 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator Something like that. These guys have one that runs for 90 hours is 250 watts 12 or 24 VDC and uses a methanol and water mix. methane fuel cells don't use platinum and are, therefore, less expensive. Its configurable with an RS-232 port. It can be used as a battery charger as well so that if your system has dropped to battery, it will recharge the battery after its charge has dropped to a configurable level. Its pretty cool stuff. I was looking to backup power an entire data center with one of the larger ones a couple of years ago. There is a european company called BAXI that makes fuel cells as well. This one is perfect for the application requirements in the original email. I don't recall them as being that expensive either. http://www.idatech.com/Products-and-Services-iGen-System2.asp --Curtis Tom DeReggi wrote: > Thanks.... > > PS. Isn't Hydrogen Fual Cell the technology Spring just got like $X > billion grant to pioneer? > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Curtis Maurand" <[email protected]> > To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 3:14 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator > > > >> Sorry, I should have posted this page. >> >> no moving parts. >> >> http://www.idatech.com/ >> >> >> >> Tom DeReggi wrote: >> >>> Patrick, >>> >>> All excellent points, and reality checks. Thanks for the feedback! >>> >>> >>> Tom DeReggi >>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <[email protected]> >>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 5:58 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> I think you'll find that to get a propane/NG generator installed on >>>> a commercial building rooftop, you'll be looking at $10k minimum >>>> using even the cheapest Generac air-cooled units. You'll need a >>>> roofing company to come out and modify the roof to provide a >>>> mounting surface for the generator, that will probably be the >>>> biggest cost. Getting management comfortable with modifying a $300k >>>> roof membrane could be an issue as well. Then getting gas to the >>>> unit from the building's gas supply will require a plumbing >>>> contractor, permits, inspections. Then the electrical hookup- more permits and inspections and a licensed EC. >>>> >>>> I just got a quote for qty 8 110AH 12v AGM batteries for a new site: >>>> $1500 including shipping. >>>> >>>> A note on the Generac air-cooled generators. They break. All >>>> generators break. The key is routine testing and PM. The generac >>>> air-cooled models don't have any provision for automatic alarm >>>> reporting. So when a battery dies or gas valve sticks or spark plug >>>> fouls or whatever, you won't know about it until a manual site >>>> inspection or the power goes out. The better generators (and the >>>> Generac liquid cooled models) have contact closures or RS232 >>>> interfaces to report these conditions to your site monitoring system, in turn notifying you back at the NOC. >>>> >>>> >>>> Patrick Shoemaker >>>> Vector Data Systems LLC >>>> [email protected] >>>> office: (301) 358-1690 x36 >>>> http://www.vectordatasystems.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Tom DeReggi wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> We also use the triplite APS inverters with good quality Gel cell. >>>>> Actually, >>>>> we got a good 15 years out of the existing C&D batteries, because >>>>> we inherited them from Teligent days :-) But new, qty 4- 12V 150AH >>>>> batteries in series for about 3500watt and decent run-time is >>>>> $1400. + $800 for replacement inverters. (The Triplites worked >>>>> really well, but about half of them died by the end of eight >>>>> years. We matched good inverters with good pre-existing batteries >>>>> and vice >>>>> versa.) >>>>> So >>>>> our thought was.... Why not buy a $2000 generator for the run-time >>>>> and load, and then several smaller UPSes for infront to cover the >>>>> surges, power conditioning, and monitoring? Ones that keep running >>>>> even when batteries short out. Part of the reason we are >>>>> investigating is that we now have duplicate need of devices to >>>>> power. Some are AC devices like PC routers. >>>>> Some are 20-24VDC w/AC adapters. Some are new licensed gear >>>>> running on 48V. >>>>> Cost is increased having long battery run time on both seperate AC >>>>> and DC backup power subsystems. And how do we plan for load >>>>> growth? How many new radios installed will be AC or DC? Unlicensed >>>>> versus Licensed? We really dont know in advance. There is a lot >>>>> of power waste going from AC to DC to AC to DC. >>>>> >>>>> The thought was... If long run time was accomplished by the >>>>> propaine generator, both DC and AC battery subsystems could be >>>>> installed with lower cost lower run-time batteries. We'd still >>>>> need to account for max watts growth for each subsystem, but we >>>>> could way reduce AH requirements for both subsystems. >>>>> >>>>> Or am I making this to complicated, and better just sticking with >>>>> batteries >>>>> :-) >>>>> >>>>> Chris Erikson's idea on solar panels sounded interesting. >>>>> Although, I bet my ruthless roof rights people will try to charge >>>>> me a monthly colo fee for them :-( I wonder if I can make the >>>>> solar panels look like rain/weather shields >>>>> :-) >>>>> >>>>> Tom DeReggi >>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "jp" <[email protected]> >>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:11 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> The tripplite APS is what we use for this. Small generators are a >>>>>> pain. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 02:57:23PM -0430, [email protected] wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> You might want something like an inverter (Xantrex for example) >>>>>>> which includes a DC to AC inverter, battery charger, and >>>>>>> automatic transfer switch. Add the batteries and you're done. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2009, at 2:38 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>> That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning >>>>>>>> toward a UPS. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost >>>>>>>> less and be far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM >>>>>>>> off the batteries @ 24VDC. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks again >>>>>>>> Jerry >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Gary Garrett >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:59 AM >>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Small generators do not auto start very reliably. >>>>>>>> When cold or dampness causes hard starting the starter can >>>>>>>> overheat and burn out. Generally you need an electric choke to >>>>>>>> start gas engines, propane can "flood" and need to rest before >>>>>>>> trying again, diesel can be REAL hard to start when cold. Auto >>>>>>>> starters can not adapt to changing conditions. >>>>>>>> Our best generator is a Propane Ford inline 6 cyl. 25 KW 3 phase. >>>>>>>> (1955 >>>>>>>> Model) >>>>>>>> The monitor cranks for 1 min then rests and tries 3 times. >>>>>>>> Everything is >>>>>>>> adjustable. It knows to stop cranking when it sees AC voltage >>>>>>>> from the Gen. so the motor over runs the starter for just a few >>>>>>>> seconds. Only a huge starter motor can take this abuse and last >>>>>>>> unattended. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You may be money ahead to find out why the existing generator >>>>>>>> is not starting and get it fixed. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jerry Richardson wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We rent on a tower that is suspposed to have gen-set backup >>>>>>>>> but it does not start reliably. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Any recommendations on a small auto-start generator? We only >>>>>>>>> need to power a CMMmicro - ~100watts. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Jerry Richardson >>>>>>>>> airCloud Communications >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> ------------------ >>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> ------------------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> ----------------- >>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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