Its really not onerous requirements.   Basically you need
to dispose of them with a true battery recylcer - often times
the scrap dealer down the road.

As long as they provide documenation that you took them to
someone reputable in the chain, you are fine.

A typical flooded CO battery weighs in at around 400 lbs, the
last ones we removed got .15 cents a lb, with paper trail to Doe
Run MO.

The site had over 48 of them.

You need a special sling to move them...  If anyone has to
I can give details.


Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brian Webster" <bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator


> And don't forget the disposal costs of batteries when they are no longer 
> functional. Telephone companies have an extensive HAZMAT documentation and 
> chain of custody requirement for their switch batteries. Don't think this 
> industry will get away with not having some requirement like that for long 
> :-)
>
>
>
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
> <!--[endif]-->
>
>
>
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
> Patrick,
>
> In general, sounds like good advice.
>
> To clarify our intent, in posting.....
>
>>From yr 2000-2008, our model was to....
>
> 1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites.
> 2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered 
> generator,
> in longer lasting Emergencies.
>    (We have a couple hot spare generators)
>
> Why are we changing our view point?
>
> 1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are
> still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in price (aka
> Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the
> batteries, based on watt load at the sites.
>
> 2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the
> challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and harder to 
> get
> to multiple locations at once with generators.
>    Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when towards the end
> of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the
> time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes.
>
> 3)  Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-)
>
> We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase uptime, and 
> not
> necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of course 
> still
> keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be more hassle
> than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me
> quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when
> needed.
>
> We are already connected to building generators, where we were allowed to,
> so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own.
> I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property management 
> would
> have for this type stuff.  For example, whether they would be concerned
> about it blowing up if a gas leak occured.
>
> I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical
> connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would
> require Xray and drilling every floor of 20.
> There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking
> maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the
> tank after use?
>
> I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want to mount 
> on
> ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up.
>
> Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features
> for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features to meet 
> the
> requirements of code and property managers.
>
> For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com>
> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>
>
>  Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will
> be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues.
> However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency
> power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict
> requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and
> fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer,
> you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power
> from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of
> their tenants for phone systems, etc.
>
> Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and
> place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery
> capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the
> rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries.
>
>
> Patrick Shoemaker
> Vector Data Systems LLC
> shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
> office: (301) 358-1690 x36
> http://www.vectordatasystems.com
>
>
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>    While on the topic of generators.....
>
> Anyone have advice on how to accommodate generators in Commercial
> Multi-tenant buildings.
>
> Several things come to mind... Gas generators are definately not allowed
> on
> roofs, for fire safety reasons.
> Adequate ventilation is likely needed for either gas or Propain
> generators.
>
> What type propain generators would likely gain permission to get
> installed
> in a rooftop penthouse? or Roof?
>
> If a propain generator was used on a top floor, how would Propain get
> re-fueled easilly?
> Is is standard proceedure to have removable tanks, and just have new
> tanks
> swapped (like a gas grill).?
> Or is is customary to have tanks on the ground level?
> Or is it always standard to put the generator at ground level, and run AC
> wire up to the roof level?
> Do propain gas trucks have long enough hoses to reach rooms inside
> parking
> garages? Not likely will fit driving into parking garage?
>
> Do property owners worry about propain blowing up, and have limits to
> where
> the tanks can be placed?
>
> I'm sure some of this is in local building code.  And I can probably best
> guess some of the answers for above.
>
> But what re other people doing, to both install and maintain at the
> lowest
> dollar cost.?
>
> I saw those Generac propain models before, and they are very affordable.
> Just wondering if feasible to install them on roofs/penthouses.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jerry Richardson" <jrichard...@aircloud.com>
> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 3:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>
>
>      Thank you,
> That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning toward a UPS.
>
> A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost less and be
> far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM off the batteries @
> 24VDC.
>
> Thanks again
> Jerry
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Gary Garrett
> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:59 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>
> Small generators do not auto start very reliably.
> When cold or dampness causes hard starting the starter can overheat and
> burn out. Generally you need an electric choke to start gas engines,
> propane can "flood" and need to rest before trying again, diesel can be
> REAL hard to start when cold. Auto starters can not adapt to changing
> conditions.
> Our best generator is a Propane Ford inline 6 cyl. 25 KW 3 phase. (1955
> Model)
> The monitor cranks for 1 min then rests and tries 3 times. Everything is
> adjustable. It knows to stop cranking when it sees AC voltage from the
> Gen. so the motor over runs the starter for just a few seconds. Only a
> huge starter motor can take this abuse and last unattended.
>
> You may be money ahead to find out why the existing generator is not
> starting and get it fixed.
>
> Jerry Richardson wrote:
>        We rent on a tower that is suspposed to have gen-set backup but it 
> does
> not start reliably.
>
> Any recommendations on a small auto-start generator? We only need to
> power a CMMmicro - ~100watts.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Jerry Richardson
> airCloud Communications
>
>
>
>
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