Uhm...exchange them for 15 bucks off a new one...

On 8/3/09, Brian Webster <[email protected]> wrote:
> And don't forget the disposal costs of batteries when they are no longer
> functional. Telephone companies have an extensive HAZMAT documentation and
> chain of custody requirement for their switch batteries. Don't think this
> industry will get away with not having some requirement like that for long
> :-)
>
>
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
>
>
>
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>
>> Patrick,
>>
>> In general, sounds like good advice.
>>
>> To clarify our intent, in posting.....
>>
>> >From yr 2000-2008, our model was to....
>>
>> 1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites.
>> 2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered
>> generator,
>> in longer lasting Emergencies.
>>     (We have a couple hot spare generators)
>>
>> Why are we changing our view point?
>>
>> 1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are
>> still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in price (aka
>>
>> Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the
>> batteries, based on watt load at the sites.
>>
>> 2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the
>> challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and harder to
>> get
>> to multiple locations at once with generators.
>>     Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when towards the end
>>
>> of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the
>> time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes.
>>
>> 3)  Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-)
>>
>> We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase uptime, and
>> not
>> necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of course
>> still
>> keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be more hassle
>>
>> than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me
>> quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when
>> needed.
>>
>> We are already connected to building generators, where we were allowed to,
>>
>> so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own.
>> I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property management
>> would
>> have for this type stuff.  For example, whether they would be concerned
>> about it blowing up if a gas leak occured.
>>
>> I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical
>> connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would
>> require Xray and drilling every floor of 20.
>> There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking
>> maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the
>> tank after use?
>>
>> I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want to mount
>> on
>> ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up.
>>
>> Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features
>> for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features to meet
>> the
>> requirements of code and property managers.
>>
>> For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Patrick Shoemaker" <[email protected]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will
>>> be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues.
>>> However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency
>>> power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict
>>> requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and
>>> fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer,
>>> you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power
>>> from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of
>>> their tenants for phone systems, etc.
>>>
>>> Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and
>>> place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery
>>> capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the
>>> rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries.
>>>
>>>
>>> Patrick Shoemaker
>>> Vector Data Systems LLC
>>> [email protected]
>>> office: (301) 358-1690 x36
>>> http://www.vectordatasystems.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> While on the topic of generators.....
>>>>
>>>> Anyone have advice on how to accommodate generators in Commercial
>>>> Multi-tenant buildings.
>>>>
>>>> Several things come to mind... Gas generators are definately not allowed
>>>>
>>>> on
>>>> roofs, for fire safety reasons.
>>>> Adequate ventilation is likely needed for either gas or Propain
>>>> generators.
>>>>
>>>> What type propain generators would likely gain permission to get
>>>> installed
>>>> in a rooftop penthouse? or Roof?
>>>>
>>>> If a propain generator was used on a top floor, how would Propain get
>>>> re-fueled easilly?
>>>> Is is standard proceedure to have removable tanks, and just have new
>>>> tanks
>>>> swapped (like a gas grill).?
>>>> Or is is customary to have tanks on the ground level?
>>>> Or is it always standard to put the generator at ground level, and run
>>>> AC
>>>> wire up to the roof level?
>>>> Do propain gas trucks have long enough hoses to reach rooms inside
>>>> parking
>>>> garages? Not likely will fit driving into parking garage?
>>>>
>>>> Do property owners worry about propain blowing up, and have limits to
>>>> where
>>>> the tanks can be placed?
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure some of this is in local building code.  And I can probably
>>>> best
>>>> guess some of the answers for above.
>>>>
>>>> But what re other people doing, to both install and maintain at the
>>>> lowest
>>>> dollar cost.?
>>>>
>>>> I saw those Generac propain models before, and they are very affordable.
>>>> Just wondering if feasible to install them on roofs/penthouses.
>>>>
>>>> Tom DeReggi
>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jerry Richardson" <[email protected]>
>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 3:08 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning toward a
>>>>> UPS.
>>>>>
>>>>> A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost less and
>>>>> be
>>>>> far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM off the batteries @
>>>>> 24VDC.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks again
>>>>> Jerry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Gary Garrett
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:59 AM
>>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>>>>>
>>>>> Small generators do not auto start very reliably.
>>>>> When cold or dampness causes hard starting the starter can overheat and
>>>>> burn out. Generally you need an electric choke to start gas engines,
>>>>> propane can "flood" and need to rest before trying again, diesel can be
>>>>> REAL hard to start when cold. Auto starters can not adapt to changing
>>>>> conditions.
>>>>> Our best generator is a Propane Ford inline 6 cyl. 25 KW 3 phase. (1955
>>>>> Model)
>>>>> The monitor cranks for 1 min then rests and tries 3 times. Everything
>>>>> is
>>>>> adjustable. It knows to stop cranking when it sees AC voltage from the
>>>>> Gen. so the motor over runs the starter for just a few seconds. Only a
>>>>> huge starter motor can take this abuse and last unattended.
>>>>>
>>>>> You may be money ahead to find out why the existing generator is not
>>>>> starting and get it fixed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jerry Richardson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We rent on a tower that is suspposed to have gen-set backup but it
>>>>>> does
>>>>>> not start reliably.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any recommendations on a small auto-start generator? We only need to
>>>>>> power a CMMmicro - ~100watts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________
>>>>>> Jerry Richardson
>>>>>> airCloud Communications
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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-- 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


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