And the part 15 type B certification is a self certification process with no
filing needed with the FCC and there for no FCC id number provided. Majority
of the testing is line noise testing ie what possible signals the device
might be outputting into the electrical grid. That is where the most
stringent requirements are on a type B device. 

Your mixing up the type class B certification with full Part 15
certification testing. Yes the crossroads and the rb411r have full
certification because they have transceivers that needs certified built on
to the unit. 
But a regular class B device does not. Just take a look at any regular
computer part with exception of a radio card or modem. You will find NO FCC
id's on any of those devices but more than likely you will find a FCC logo
on them to indicate that the testing been done and that the device passes
and the manufacturer have the testing documentation in their own company
files. 

Class A restrictions are lower than Class B restrictions because they are
expected to be used/installed by professionals while a Class B device is
installed by the less technical knowledged. Take a regular computer for
example the parts and pieces are Class B certified yet you can use a
computer in a business/commercial environment because a Class B device
exceeds the Class A requirements. 

/ Eje

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of ralph
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:22 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

Don't forget that routerboard is a computer. It does more than enable the
wireless card.
It needs to have a Part 15 computing device certification as well, just like
your PC.

So regardless of the radio card and the antenna and any of the rest of the
things that people are disagreeing on, it still boils down to a fine for the
user if the RB causes interference and is found to be not certified.  If
some of you were around when PC clones were being first built, we had these
computer shows and fairs and even some Hamfests where the local pc builders
were showing their wares.  A popular PC case was a convenient flip top
affair that allowed easy access to the cards inside without using screws.
The FCC made many a visit to these shows, shutting down and fining the
builders of these systems. They did not build the motherboard and they did
not build the case, they just *assembled* it, just like you folks are doing
with the Mikrotik stuff.

As far as I can tell from the FCC info, only 2 routerboards have any FCC
Part 15 Class A or B computing device approval.
They are the Crossroads and the RB411- both of which already have on board
wireless.

I will quote part 15.3 here and you can decide whether or not your
routerboards are required to be certified.
If I were you, I would demand that MT have all their computing devices
certified.

=======
Digital device:ยง 15.3 (k) Digital device. (Previously defined as a computing
device). An unintentional radiator (device or system) that generates and
uses timing signals or pulses at a rate in excess of 9,000 pulses (cycles)
per second and uses digital techniques; inclusive of telephone equipment
that uses digital techniques or any device or system that generates and uses
radio frequency energy for the purpose of performing data processing
functions, such as electronic computations, operations, transformations,
recording, filing, sorting, storage, retrieval, or transfer. A radio
frequency device that is specifically subject to an emanation requirement in
any other FCC Rule Part or an intentional radiator subject to Subpart C of
this Part that contains a digital device is not subject to the standards for
digital devices, provided the digital device is used only to enable
operation of the radio frequency device and the digital device does not
control additional functions or capabilities. Note: Computer terminals and
peripherals that are intended to be connected to a computer are digital
devices. 


Class A digital device: A Class "A" digital device is a digital device that
is marketed for use in a commercial, industrial or business environment. 

Class B digital device: A Class "B" digital device is a digital device that
is marketed for use in a residential environment. Examples of such devices
include, but are not limited to, personal computers, calculators, and
similar electronic devices that are marketed for use by the general public.
Class B equipment, intended for use in a residential environment where the
likelihood of RFI is greater, must meet much stricter RF emission limits
than the Class A devices. 
=======








-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

The way I understand it, the routerboard don't matter, the antenna, and
radio matters, as its certified as a system, with xx gain of this type
of antenna.  You also have to have the FCC information, etc, on the
outside that MT offers to only its distributors.  

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

That's been the ongoing argument. 

I use the analogy of a PCMCIA or USB card. that's the device that is FCC
certified - the computer (routerboard) just runs it.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:53 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

Excuse my ignorance but since the card is the only thing that  
transmits why does the board and especially why does the enclosure  
need to be certified? If one puts a two way radio in a car the radio  
needs to be certified, not the whole car.

Greg
On Sep 14, 2009, at 8:30 PM, ralph wrote:

> Pretty broad statement: "MT is FCC Certified :)"
> Yes, I believe the wireless cards themselves might be- but even if  
> they are,
> that does not an FCC certified system make.
> Please give me some FCC registration numbers of certified systems.  
> Something
> like the RB/card/enclosure combination.
> Maybe someone built a system and had it tested and received a number  
> for
> *that system*.
>
> Thanks
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]  
> On
> Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:00 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
>
> MT is FCC Certified :)
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> WISPA Vendor Member
> Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
> LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
> Author of "Learn RouterOS"
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]  
> On
> Behalf Of ralph
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:57 AM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
>
> Marlon-
> You asked, and you probably already know what I will say
>
> Airaya and others: FCC Certified
> Mikrotik- Not so much
> It all depends on if you want to be legal or not.
>
>
> If you want 802.11, then look at the Ubiquiti Powerstation. Seems to
> work
> fine for us, just don't mount it outside.
>
> Ralph
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]  
> On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:19 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] backhaul choices
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have to upgrade a couple of backhaul systems and I'm wondering what
> others
>
> are using.
>
> I've got Airaya gear in place.  I've LOVED it.  That's been some of  
> the
> most
>
> reliable gear that I've ever used.
>
> I also like my Mikrotik hardware so far.  We've put quite a bit of  
> it in
>
> over the last year or so.
>
> Both of the links I'm going to replace are indoor units with coax to  
> the
>
> outdoor antennas.  So no fancy weather issues to deal with.
>
> It would be nice to go with Airaya again.  But the MT hardware to do  
> the
>
> same job is about 20% of the cost last time I checked.  I hate to go  
> too
>
> cheap, but I hate to spend too much for no gain.....  What are you  
> guys
> using these days?  Again, the antennas and such are already in place,
> all I
> need to replace is the indoor ratios.
>
> Why would you install what you put in?
>
> laters,
> marlon
>
>
>
>
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