Don't confuse the FCC aproval of the routerboard emmisions as a CPU with the actual FCC certification of a rf system with radio pigtail and antenna
Even my 25 year old tv has a FCC label stating it complies with emmisions Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Sep 16, 2009, at 4:42 PM, "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: > Pretty sure they all say 411, or 433, or 493, etc. > > In fact the crossroads also said 411 I think... > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however > improbable, must be the truth." > --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle > > > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 4:33 PM, ralph <ralphli...@bsrg.org> wrote: > >> I can't look again because I just dropped it off at UPS to go back >> for RMA. >> I had never opened this one until now, but the board say 433 and >> the case >> says 433AH. I bought a 433AH >> Is the board in a 433AH board marked as such or do they all say 433? >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >> boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Randy Cosby >> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 4:22 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices >> >> The FCC logo on the RB433AH is right next to the "CE" logo just to >> the >> left of the two (ram?) chips about 2/3 of the way down the board. >> >> >> >> ralph wrote: >>> I don't see anything like that on the pdf you referred to. >>> I have in my hand a 433AH in a case that came from a well known >>> supplier >> of >>> pre-cased RBs >>> There are no markings on the case about compliance with any rule >>> or any >> FCC >>> numbers at all. >>> There is nothing that says FCC on the top of the RB inside >>> either. I did >>> not remove the board and look underneath. >>> >>> As far as where you go to see if it is certified or not, I don't >>> know all >>> the places, but there is usually a sticker that gives the details >>> about >> the >>> certification. >>> You can also check the FCC filing, which I believe even shows >>> replicas of >>> the sticker. I think the user's manual also mentions the approval. >>> >>> The Crossroads FCC filing shows the sticker and its placement. >>> >> >> https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=82 >>> 9435&native_or_pdf=pdf >>> >>> The user's manual has an entire page dedicated to the FCC data >>> including >> all >>> the warnings on page 11 >>> >> >> https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=82 >>> 9433&native_or_pdf=pdf >>> >>> >>> >>> Mikrotik has very little stuff certified. Most of the listings are >>> for >> the >>> same devices, just certified on different frequencies or in >>> different >>> configurations. >>> There are the 2 things I already mentioned, as well as these: >>> >>> R5H (a radio card only) photos show it in a routerboard being >>> used as a >>> "test fixture" but test was only for the card, and an FCC label >>> must be >>> placed on the outside of the final enclosure. Actually the same as >>> WLM54AGP23 but FCC shown so record of this device. >>> >>> R52 : This module is intended for OEM integrator. The OEM >>> integrator is >>> still responsible >>> for the FCC compliance requirement of the end product, which >>> integrates >> this >>> module. >>> >>> >>> So if you go and put an R52 in anything, it becomes *your* >>> responsibility >> to >>> the FCC to maintain compliance. MT appears to be pretty much >>> immune to >>> citations on this issue. One could conclude that someone like >>> Dennis >>> probably operates this way. >>> >>> It isn't just MT. The Williboard stuff (when assembled by >>> Deliberant or >>> Ligowave) becomes certified too. >>> >>> I also seem to remember that the Pronghorn Metro stuff has do it >>> yourself >>> instructions showing exactly how to build the unit so it is just >>> like the >>> one they had certified, right down to the internal pigtail. >>> >>> I can't locate my StarOS equipment to see what they did, but >>> something is >>> telling me that they have the proper stickers too. I'd have to >>> check, or >>> maybe Lonnie can address the issue. >>> >>> It would really be nice to draw together a list of just which >>> equipment >> was >>> and was not. Some folks would care I think. >>> Of course from what I have read and seen over the years, many of >>> you do >> not >>> care whether or not you are operating legally. >>> >>> I'm not trying to start anything- just stating the facts as I see >>> 'em. >>> >>> Ralph >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >>> boun...@wispa.org] On >>> Behalf Of Randy Cosby >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:31 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices >>> >>> What does the FCC symbol stamped on my RB433AH signify? (see >>> http://www.routerboard.com/pdf/rb433ah.pdf) >>> >>> Where does one look to see what devices are FCC part-15 Class A >>> and B >>> certified? >>> >>> Randy >>> >>> Mike Hammett wrote: >>> >>>> An RB411 does not have onboard wireless at all, only a mPCI. A >> crossroads >>>> >>> >>> >>>> does, however. >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Mike Hammett >>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>> http://www.ics-il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "ralph" <ralphli...@bsrg.org> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:22 PM >>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Don't forget that routerboard is a computer. It does more than >>>>> enable >> the >>>>> wireless card. >>>>> It needs to have a Part 15 computing device certification as >>>>> well, just >>>>> like >>>>> your PC. >>>>> >>>>> So regardless of the radio card and the antenna and any of the >>>>> rest of >>>>> >>> the >>> >>>>> things that people are disagreeing on, it still boils down to a >>>>> fine >> for >> >>>>> the >>>>> user if the RB causes interference and is found to be not >>>>> certified. >> If >>>>> some of you were around when PC clones were being first built, >>>>> we had >>>>> these >>>>> computer shows and fairs and even some Hamfests where the local pc >>>>> builders >>>>> were showing their wares. A popular PC case was a convenient >>>>> flip top >>>>> affair that allowed easy access to the cards inside without using >> screws. >>>>> The FCC made many a visit to these shows, shutting down and >>>>> fining the >>>>> builders of these systems. They did not build the motherboard >>>>> and they >>>>> >>> did >>> >>>>> not build the case, they just *assembled* it, just like you >>>>> folks are >>>>> doing >>>>> with the Mikrotik stuff. >>>>> >>>>> As far as I can tell from the FCC info, only 2 routerboards have >>>>> any >> FCC >>>>> Part 15 Class A or B computing device approval. >>>>> They are the Crossroads and the RB411- both of which already >>>>> have on >>>>> >>> board >>> >>>>> wireless. >>>>> >>>>> I will quote part 15.3 here and you can decide whether or not your >>>>> routerboards are required to be certified. >>>>> If I were you, I would demand that MT have all their computing >>>>> devices >>>>> certified. >>>>> >>>>> ======= >>>>> Digital device:§ 15.3 (k) Digital device. (Previously defin >>>>> ed as a >>>>> computing >>>>> device). An unintentional radiator (device or system) that >>>>> generates >> and >>>>> uses timing signals or pulses at a rate in excess of 9,000 pulses >>>>> >>> (cycles) >>> >>>>> per second and uses digital techniques; inclusive of telephone >> equipment >>>>> that uses digital techniques or any device or system that >>>>> generates and >>>>> uses >>>>> radio frequency energy for the purpose of performing data >>>>> processing >>>>> functions, such as electronic computations, operations, >> transformations, >>>>> recording, filing, sorting, storage, retrieval, or transfer. A >>>>> radio >>>>> frequency device that is specifically subject to an emanation >> requirement >>>>> >>> >>> >>>>> in >>>>> any other FCC Rule Part or an intentional radiator subject to >>>>> Subpart C >>>>> >>> of >>> >>>>> this Part that contains a digital device is not subject to the >> standards >> >>>>> for >>>>> digital devices, provided the digital device is used only to >>>>> enable >>>>> operation of the radio frequency device and the digital device >>>>> does not >>>>> control additional functions or capabilities. Note: Computer >>>>> terminals >>>>> >>> and >>> >>>>> peripherals that are intended to be connected to a computer are >>>>> digital >>>>> devices. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Class A digital device: A Class "A" digital device is a digital >>>>> device >>>>> that >>>>> is marketed for use in a commercial, industrial or business >> environment. >>>>> >>>>> Class B digital device: A Class "B" digital device is a digital >>>>> device >>>>> that >>>>> is marketed for use in a residential environment. Examples of such >>>>> >>> devices >>> >>>>> include, but are not limited to, personal computers, >>>>> calculators, and >>>>> similar electronic devices that are marketed for use by the >>>>> general >>>>> public. >>>>> Class B equipment, intended for use in a residential environment >>>>> where >>>>> >>> the >>> >>>>> likelihood of RFI is greater, must meet much stricter RF emission >> limits >>>>> than the Class A devices. >>>>> ======= >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >>>>> boun...@wispa.org] >> On >>>>> Behalf Of Dennis Burgess >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:32 PM >>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices >>>>> >>>>> The way I understand it, the routerboard don't matter, the >>>>> antenna, and >>>>> radio matters, as its certified as a system, with xx gain of >>>>> this type >>>>> of antenna. You also have to have the FCC information, etc, on >>>>> the >>>>> outside that MT offers to only its distributors. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >>>>> boun...@wispa.org] >> On >>>>> Behalf Of Jerry Richardson >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:12 PM >>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices >>>>> >>>>> That's been the ongoing argument. >>>>> >>>>> I use the analogy of a PCMCIA or USB card. that's the device >>>>> that is >> FCC >>>>> certified - the computer (routerboard) just runs it. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >>>>> boun...@wispa.org] >> On >>>>> Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:53 PM >>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices >>>>> >>>>> Excuse my ignorance but since the card is the only thing that >>>>> transmits why does the board and especially why does the enclosure >>>>> need to be certified? If one puts a two way radio in a car the >>>>> radio >>>>> needs to be certified, not the whole car. >>>>> >>>>> Greg >>>>> On Sep 14, 2009, at 8:30 PM, ralph wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Pretty broad statement: "MT is FCC Certified :)" >>>>>> Yes, I believe the wireless cards themselves might be- but even >>>>>> if >>>>>> they are, >>>>>> that does not an FCC certified system make. >>>>>> Please give me some FCC registration numbers of certified >>>>>> systems. >>>>>> Something >>>>>> like the RB/card/enclosure combination. >>>>>> Maybe someone built a system and had it tested and received a >>>>>> number >>>>>> for >>>>>> *that system*. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >>>>>> boun...@wispa.org] >>>>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of Dennis Burgess >>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:00 PM >>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices >>>>>> >>>>>> MT is FCC Certified :) >>>>>> >>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer >>>>>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org >>>>>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services >>>>>> WISPA Vendor Member >>>>>> Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net >>>>>> LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training >>>>>> Author of "Learn RouterOS" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >>>>>> boun...@wispa.org] >>>>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of ralph >>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:57 AM >>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices >>>>>> >>>>>> Marlon- >>>>>> You asked, and you probably already know what I will say >>>>>> >>>>>> Airaya and others: FCC Certified >>>>>> Mikrotik- Not so much >>>>>> It all depends on if you want to be legal or not. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If you want 802.11, then look at the Ubiquiti Powerstation. >>>>>> Seems to >>>>>> work >>>>>> fine for us, just don't mount it outside. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ralph >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >>>>>> boun...@wispa.org] >>>>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer >>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:19 AM >>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] backhaul choices >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have to upgrade a couple of backhaul systems and I'm >>>>>> wondering what >>>>>> others >>>>>> >>>>>> are using. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've got Airaya gear in place. I've LOVED it. That's been >>>>>> some of >>>>>> the >>>>>> most >>>>>> >>>>>> reliable gear that I've ever used. >>>>>> >>>>>> I also like my Mikrotik hardware so far. We've put quite a bit >>>>>> of >>>>>> it in >>>>>> >>>>>> over the last year or so. >>>>>> >>>>>> Both of the links I'm going to replace are indoor units with >>>>>> coax to >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> outdoor antennas. So no fancy weather issues to deal with. >>>>>> >>>>>> It would be nice to go with Airaya again. But the MT hardware >>>>>> to do >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> same job is about 20% of the cost last time I checked. I hate >>>>>> to go >>>>>> too >>>>>> >>>>>> cheap, but I hate to spend too much for no gain..... What are >>>>>> you >>>>>> guys >>>>>> using these days? Again, the antennas and such are already in >>>>>> place, >>>>>> all I >>>>>> need to replace is the indoor ratios. >>>>>> >>>>>> Why would you install what you put in? >>>>>> >>>>>> laters, >>>>>> marlon >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >> --- >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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