Isn't XO a Level3 reseller? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373
"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth." --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Tom DeReggi <[email protected]>wrote: > It should be noted that an Upstreams performance can be directly > proportional to the location where they have more peering. > In the DC and NY markets, Cogent has excellent performance and peering, > and > has shown to outperform EVERY provider we have tried, period. > (And yes, some of the carriers we tried were Level3, XO, and Abovenet.) > I recognize that Cogent's performance "may" not be as good for ALL markets > where they potentially could have a weaker presence. > But saying Cogent is only worthy of the 3rd or 4th transit connection is > simply untrue. > > Cogent's weak point now is internal processes and communication. They've > lost touch with the value of having personal Account Reps, and render the > reps powerless to manage the accounts, in favor of the customer > relationship > managed by the clueless billing/collections department. Its a shame. You > might even get away with saying Cogent has a few more short duration (less > than 15 minutes?) outages than other carriers. But their tech support has > been the best by far in the industry, and oversubscription has never been a > problem from what I see. > > In picking a Transit provider its really a decision about where your > traffic > typically flows, and where you need good performance to. NOT anyone has > best > performance everywhere. > For example, Hurricane has excellent performance AND they are inexpensive. > They have a really good peering presensence in CA. I'm not confident that > they have nearly as good a presence on the East coast though, but those > that > have used them on teh east coast that I know have been happy. We were > considering using them. > > Abovenet has great Gig-E Transport. But their transit is expensive, and its > because its more expensive for them to provide it, because they are not as > well positioned to do it cost effectively, not because its necessarilly > better. Level3 as well, has many strength. They have a lot of web host > clients. It can really help performance to reach certain sites. Level3 also > tends to blocks smaller BGP block announcements, more so than someone like > Cogent. Level3 is good for a secondaryu because they usually have diverse > routes. Some providers have good performance to France, Amsterdam, India, > others dont. Savvis tends to have real peering to NY finacnial markets. I > often see Blended bandwdith combining Global Cross and Level3, not sure why > these two are chosen as a pair. Maybe its simply becaue they tend to be > colocated at the same carrier hotels? > > But selecting a transit provider is not as simple as saying one is better. > My personaly opinion is, find the two lowest cost providers, and then you > can afford to buy more bandwidth, and have two options to route customers. > > You also need to consider the path to where you take it. For example, > Cogent > remote tenant buildings likely have routers with less ram that cant handle > full BGP tables, so they require creating session to two seperate BGP > servers (with the second one having full routes.). But of you connect to > them inb a major colo center that doesn;t exist. Similar things exist with > other providers depending on where you pick up the circuit. > > What I like about Abovenet, is they'll map out their network for you, so > you > know exactly what you are buying, so true redunancy can be built into the > network design. Cogent is a bit more secrative about the traffic path. > > XO has had some really good account reps, and I liked that. But for me, > they > didn't really give me anything exciting as far as price or performance, > more > than anyone else. > > It should also be noted that it could make a big difference which local > colo > you pick the circuit up in also. So when you are evaluating a provider you > are also evaluating the venue where the circuit is in. > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad Belton" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]>; "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected] > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:47 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams > > > > Cogent can be ok, but they are not equal to AboveNET, XO, AT&T, Level3 > > etc... We have multiple upstream GigE feeds and Cogent is one of them. > > > > It took us months to get Cogent to resolve a flapping switch or router > > within their network. After a couple dozen screenshots and trace routes > > from various looking glass sites they finally conceded. Granted the > > outages > > were only between 5 and 60 seconds long when they occurred and rarely > were > > long enough to break BGP sessions, but they were hell on VoIP! > > > > It took us less than a day to find the specific Cogent IP or device where > > the problem was occurring, but months before Cogent acted on the > > information > > we provided them. Cogent Support honestly wasn't that bad, but said > their > > hands were tied until management further up the chain completed their > > investigation. During that time we had to route voice traffic around > > Cogent > > as best we could. > > > > Cogent is great as a cheap third or fourth GigE upstream, but never a > sole > > or primary Internet feed, IMO. While Cogent goes about their BGP peering > > a > > little different than most, I do agree their BGP Support is equal to > > anyone > > else's we've worked with. > > > > Best, > > > > > > Brad > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > > Behalf Of Bret Clark > > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 1:15 PM > > To: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams > > > > I always hear about Cogent having a bad rap, but where does that come > > from? I can't say that one bit! They've worked great for us and during > > the initial install clearly went above and beyond the call of duty when > > we encountered a problem even waking a VP up at 1AM on a Sunday morning > > because we need to have the circuit up and running by first thing > > Monday! > > > > When I have add to call their tech support up about questions that > > actually understand what BGP is and how it works! > > Bret > > > > > > > > On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 11:58 -0500, Jon Auer wrote: > > > >> Cogent has a bad rap but they have been solid for us for the past > >> year. Prior to that they had a few hickups. Their peering is pretty > >> good. Low latency to all major content sites. > >> > >> Level3 seems to have more outages than a provider of their reputation > > should. > >> > >> Savvis is has poor peering from what I hear. > >> > >> I'd like to add Abovenet or Global crossing to my mix. > >> > >> On 10/21/09, Marco Coelho <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > I'm a GigE circuit to the mix, and I've got a choice of: > >> > > >> > Abovenet > >> > Cogent > >> > Global Crossing > >> > Level3 > >> > Savvis > >> > > >> > I'm looking for recommendations of who the better upstream is. > >> > > >> > Marco > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Marco C. Coelho > >> > Argon Technologies Inc. > >> > POB 875 > >> > Greenville, TX 75403-0875 > >> > 903-455-5036 > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >> > http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > >> > > >> > WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > >> > > >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> > > >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> > > >> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > > > WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wants You! 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