Oh, and XO has a lot of their own metro fiber. Not sure of their long haul.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -------------------------------------------------- From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 4:31 PM To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams > Isn't XO a Level3 reseller? > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however > improbable, must be the truth." > --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle > > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Tom DeReggi > <wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net>wrote: > >> It should be noted that an Upstreams performance can be directly >> proportional to the location where they have more peering. >> In the DC and NY markets, Cogent has excellent performance and peering, >> and >> has shown to outperform EVERY provider we have tried, period. >> (And yes, some of the carriers we tried were Level3, XO, and Abovenet.) >> I recognize that Cogent's performance "may" not be as good for ALL >> markets >> where they potentially could have a weaker presence. >> But saying Cogent is only worthy of the 3rd or 4th transit connection is >> simply untrue. >> >> Cogent's weak point now is internal processes and communication. They've >> lost touch with the value of having personal Account Reps, and render the >> reps powerless to manage the accounts, in favor of the customer >> relationship >> managed by the clueless billing/collections department. Its a shame. You >> might even get away with saying Cogent has a few more short duration >> (less >> than 15 minutes?) outages than other carriers. But their tech support >> has >> been the best by far in the industry, and oversubscription has never been >> a >> problem from what I see. >> >> In picking a Transit provider its really a decision about where your >> traffic >> typically flows, and where you need good performance to. NOT anyone has >> best >> performance everywhere. >> For example, Hurricane has excellent performance AND they are >> inexpensive. >> They have a really good peering presensence in CA. I'm not confident that >> they have nearly as good a presence on the East coast though, but those >> that >> have used them on teh east coast that I know have been happy. We were >> considering using them. >> >> Abovenet has great Gig-E Transport. But their transit is expensive, and >> its >> because its more expensive for them to provide it, because they are not >> as >> well positioned to do it cost effectively, not because its necessarilly >> better. Level3 as well, has many strength. They have a lot of web host >> clients. It can really help performance to reach certain sites. Level3 >> also >> tends to blocks smaller BGP block announcements, more so than someone >> like >> Cogent. Level3 is good for a secondaryu because they usually have >> diverse >> routes. Some providers have good performance to France, Amsterdam, India, >> others dont. Savvis tends to have real peering to NY finacnial markets. >> I >> often see Blended bandwdith combining Global Cross and Level3, not sure >> why >> these two are chosen as a pair. Maybe its simply becaue they tend to be >> colocated at the same carrier hotels? >> >> But selecting a transit provider is not as simple as saying one is >> better. >> My personaly opinion is, find the two lowest cost providers, and then you >> can afford to buy more bandwidth, and have two options to route >> customers. >> >> You also need to consider the path to where you take it. For example, >> Cogent >> remote tenant buildings likely have routers with less ram that cant >> handle >> full BGP tables, so they require creating session to two seperate BGP >> servers (with the second one having full routes.). But of you connect to >> them inb a major colo center that doesn;t exist. Similar things exist >> with >> other providers depending on where you pick up the circuit. >> >> What I like about Abovenet, is they'll map out their network for you, so >> you >> know exactly what you are buying, so true redunancy can be built into the >> network design. Cogent is a bit more secrative about the traffic path. >> >> XO has had some really good account reps, and I liked that. But for me, >> they >> didn't really give me anything exciting as far as price or performance, >> more >> than anyone else. >> >> It should also be noted that it could make a big difference which local >> colo >> you pick the circuit up in also. So when you are evaluating a provider >> you >> are also evaluating the venue where the circuit is in. >> >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Brad Belton" <b...@belwave.com> >> To: <bcl...@spectraaccess.com>; "'WISPA General List'" >> <wireless@wispa.org >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 3:47 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams >> >> >> > Cogent can be ok, but they are not equal to AboveNET, XO, AT&T, Level3 >> > etc... We have multiple upstream GigE feeds and Cogent is one of them. >> > >> > It took us months to get Cogent to resolve a flapping switch or router >> > within their network. After a couple dozen screenshots and trace >> > routes >> > from various looking glass sites they finally conceded. Granted the >> > outages >> > were only between 5 and 60 seconds long when they occurred and rarely >> were >> > long enough to break BGP sessions, but they were hell on VoIP! >> > >> > It took us less than a day to find the specific Cogent IP or device >> > where >> > the problem was occurring, but months before Cogent acted on the >> > information >> > we provided them. Cogent Support honestly wasn't that bad, but said >> their >> > hands were tied until management further up the chain completed their >> > investigation. During that time we had to route voice traffic around >> > Cogent >> > as best we could. >> > >> > Cogent is great as a cheap third or fourth GigE upstream, but never a >> sole >> > or primary Internet feed, IMO. While Cogent goes about their BGP >> > peering >> > a >> > little different than most, I do agree their BGP Support is equal to >> > anyone >> > else's we've worked with. >> > >> > Best, >> > >> > >> > Brad >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> > Behalf Of Bret Clark >> > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 1:15 PM >> > To: WISPA General List >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] choice of upstreams >> > >> > I always hear about Cogent having a bad rap, but where does that come >> > from? I can't say that one bit! They've worked great for us and during >> > the initial install clearly went above and beyond the call of duty when >> > we encountered a problem even waking a VP up at 1AM on a Sunday morning >> > because we need to have the circuit up and running by first thing >> > Monday! >> > >> > When I have add to call their tech support up about questions that >> > actually understand what BGP is and how it works! >> > Bret >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 11:58 -0500, Jon Auer wrote: >> > >> >> Cogent has a bad rap but they have been solid for us for the past >> >> year. Prior to that they had a few hickups. Their peering is pretty >> >> good. Low latency to all major content sites. >> >> >> >> Level3 seems to have more outages than a provider of their reputation >> > should. >> >> >> >> Savvis is has poor peering from what I hear. >> >> >> >> I'd like to add Abovenet or Global crossing to my mix. >> >> >> >> On 10/21/09, Marco Coelho <coelh...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > I'm a GigE circuit to the mix, and I've got a choice of: >> >> > >> >> > Abovenet >> >> > Cogent >> >> > Global Crossing >> >> > Level3 >> >> > Savvis >> >> > >> >> > I'm looking for recommendations of who the better upstream is. >> >> > >> >> > Marco >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Marco C. Coelho >> >> > Argon Technologies Inc. >> >> > POB 875 >> >> > Greenville, TX 75403-0875 >> >> > 903-455-5036 >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > ---- >> >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >> > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
