Doesn't matter. If the interference is there, it's there. If your radio has no where to spread out the signal and "avoid" that interference, you're dead.
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 10:08 PM, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>wrote: > Right but you have another 6db to get a stronger signal. > > On 11/22/09, Jayson Baker <jay...@spectrasurf.com> wrote: > > Yes, you get more signal, but you have much less spectrum for your spread > > spectrum radio to operate in. > > Spread spectrum doesn't always use the full 20MHz, it will skip around -- > > that's the "spread" part of it. > > So if you lower that to 5MHz, then you have virtually no "spread" and > > anything that may be inside that 5MHz > > will cause you a much more deteriorated performance than if it was in > your > > 20MHz. > > > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Mike <m...@aweiowa.com> wrote: > > > >> I should think the opposite is true. Halve the signal, improve > >> signal to noise 3 dB. Half it again and the improvement is 6 dB > >> signal to noise. Should give you way more margin. My tests prove that > >> out. > >> > >> > >> At 08:44 PM 11/22/2009, you wrote: > >> >IIRC, 5MHz and 10MHz is more sucepstible to interference than 20MHz. > >> > > >> >On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS < > >> >ilopezli...@sandboxitsolutions.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > > I'm gonna have to set up the environment again. Only thing I cant > >> > > simulate right now is distance. > >> > > > >> > > As long as it wasnt some voodoo config setting that made it work > >> better, > >> > > I might have to play with the Mobile NS2's settings for it to play > >> nicely. > >> > > > >> > > OT: What is CCQ? > >> > > > >> > > -Israel > >> > > > >> > > Josh Luthman wrote: > >> > > > It is very weird isn't it? > >> > > > > >> > > > Vi is better the Emacs. > >> > > > > >> > > > On 11/22/09, Mike <m...@aweiowa.com> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > >> Josh: > >> > > >> > >> > > >> I thought that too. I have a handful of customers on a 5 MHz > >> > > >> sector. Winbox shows this: > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Emacs! > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Mike > >> > > >> > >> > > >> At 07:32 PM 11/22/2009, you wrote: > >> > > >> > >> > > >>> I believe when you half the channels the rates also get halved - > >> from > >> > > >>> 54mbit > >> > > >>> to 27mbit max (that is from 20mhz to 10mhz channels). > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> I also can't see why you're voice would be having problems in > half > >> or > >> > > >>> quarter channels unless there is a software bug. It should only > >> > > improve > >> > > >>> unless you're using all available bandwidth. > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> Josh Luthman > >> > > >>> Office: 937-552-2340 > >> > > >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 > >> > > >>> 1100 Wayne St > >> > > >>> Suite 1337 > >> > > >>> Troy, OH 45373 > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." > >> > > >>> --- Albert Einstein > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com > > > >> > > wrote: > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>>> First, you should have a better signal than -70 at <5Miles away > >> with a > >> > > >>>> 24dB/NS2 antenna and a B2HP/9dB omni. I get 65 or better with > a > >> 19dB > >> > > >>>> panel. > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> Don't forget, 10MHz channel is 1/2 available bandwidth and 5MHz > >> > > >>>> is > >> 1/4 > >> > > >>>> available bandwidth. Really, you will get about 7-10MBit > >> aggregate > >> > > >>>> (depending on how many customers) on a 5MHz channel connected > at > >> > > 54MBit, > >> > > >>>> which requires signals at -74dBm with a good fade margin > (10dB). > >> > > Also, > >> > > >>>> the TX power is significantly less for 54MBps (23dBm) vs > >> > > 24MBps(28dBm), > >> > > >>>> less than half. Likely, you are connecting at 48MBps or > 36Mbps, > >> which > >> > > >>>> at that rate your total available "real case" bandwidth is as > >> little > >> > > as > >> > > >>>> 4MBps, while at 20MHz you are at 15+. > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> A narrower channel should not affect your transmission, likely > >> will > >> > > make > >> > > >>>> signals better, roughly double (+3dBm) from 20-10, and double > >> > > >>>> from > >> > > >>>> 10-5(total +6dBm). > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> Regards, > >> > > >>>> Chuck Hogg > >> > > >>>> Shelby Broadband > >> > > >>>> 502-722-9292 > >> > > >>>> ch...@shelbybb.com > >> > > >>>> http://www.shelbybb.com > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >> > > >>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto: > >> wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > >> > > On > >> > > >>>> Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com > >> > > >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:20 PM > >> > > >>>> To: WISPA General List > >> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 10MHz, 5MHz - unstable for voice? > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> Well next time definitely bring more food! Beef jerky and > granola > >> > > bars. > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> In my testing the narrower channels just made things slower. I > >> > > >>>> was > >> > > >>>> testing in a pristine area where there was no other 5.8GHz > going > >> on. > >> > > >>>> >From what I hear if the environment had been polluted > >> > > >>>> performance > >> > > might > >> > > >>>> have actually gone up with the narrower channels. > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> >From what I've read narrower channels doesn't effect packet > size > >> or > >> > > >>>> transport. But switching to WDS bridged does. > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> Greg > >> > > >>>> On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:15 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>> Its not in the field, but it is sitting here in my bedroom > >> looking > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>> cool :). > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>> I was thinking that using the 10/5MHz bandwidth required one > to > >> setup > >> > > >>>>> something else. I'm not that familiar with the use of > >> half/quarter > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>> rate > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>> channels and how that affects the frame transport/packet size > >> etc,. > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> I wonder if it was environment based rather than > >> > > >>>>> 'software/configuration' based. If I get some time this > evening > >> I > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>> might > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>> setup the gear again for more focused testing (Testing in the > >> field > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>> with > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>> volunteers who are cold and hungry dont usually respond well > to > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>> testing > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>> plans). > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> -Israel > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> Just for kicks I'd try WDS bridged. Do you have control from > >> where > >> > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>> you're at now? Is the equipment still set up? > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>>> Greg > >> > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: > >> > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>> @Travis Johnson - Yes Upgraded to newest firmware for the > two > >> units > >> > > >>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>> @os10rules - Nope, Fixed was simple AP and Mobile was > Station > >> modes > >> > > >>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: > >> > > >>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>> Running WDS bridged? > >> > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>> Greg > >> > > >>>>>>>> On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote: > >> > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> Hey All, > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> I did some field tests (for overseas volunteer project) > with > >> some > >> > > >>>>>>>>> Ubituiti gear; Nanostation2 & Bullet2HP. > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> One thing that was surprising was the performance > >> > > >>>>>>>>> degradation > >> > > when > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> switching from 20MHz to 10MHz/5MHz. Our tests were Raw > >> Bandwidth > >> > > >>>>>>>>> Tests(AirOS), Video (VLC UDP Stream), Voice (Trixbox G711 > >> Voice > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>> Call), > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> and MTR (Latency, Jitter) > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> I still have data to collect and prepare a report for the > >> tech > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>> team, but > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> we did notice that when we switched to 10 or 5MHz > bandwidth > >> our > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>> voice > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> calls was greatly degraded. Only one way; from Fixed to > >> Mobile I > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>> could > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> hear the Fixed station easily. Mobile to Fixed the voice > >> > > >>>>>>>>> was > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>> choppy. > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> We started to get packet loss & massive jitter on 10MHz, > >> > > >>>>>>>>> just > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>> going back > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> to 20MHz made the links stable. > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> Fixed Station: On a mountain side - HPOL 9dBI Omni > >> Directional > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>> with a > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> Bullet2HP @400mW > >> > > >>>>>>>>> Mobile Station: 8km away near large body of water - > >> > > >>>>>>>>> Bullet2HP > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>> @400mW w/ > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> 24dBi Directional (HPOL Alignment) -70dbm RSSI > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> Any ideas? We are planning on using 10MHz channels & > H-Pol > >> to > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>> combat > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> any future spectrum pollution and voice calls over this > >> network > >> > > is > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>> expected. > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> -Israel > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>> > >> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > >>>> -------- > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >> > > >>>>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>> > >> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > >>>> -------- > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> > > >>>>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>> > >> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > >>>> -------- > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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