Isn't copper a better conductor? Aluminum is lighter but not as good of a conductor. That's why high tension wires have to be fatter than copper wires to carry the same current but they're cheaper and lighter.
Greg On Dec 4, 2009, at 7:29 AM, Scott Reed wrote: > I would think so. Aluminum is a little better conductor, but copper's > physical characteristics make it easier to work with in many applications. > > [email protected] wrote: >> I thought the heavy duty EMP shielding the govt/mil does at protected sites >> uses copper. >> >> Greg >> On Dec 4, 2009, at 6:38 AM, Scott Reed wrote: >> >> >>> Can you point me to a source to confirm this? Aluminum is a better >>> conductor than steel so I would think it does a better job. I would be >>> interested in reading about the physics behind this. >>> >>> MDK wrote: >>> >>>> Aluminum is moderately effective at attenuating microwave rf. >>>> >>>> Steel is needed to dampen EMP (from lightning strikes). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Josh Luthman" <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case? Do you normally use >>>>> steel if not? >>>>> >>>>> I use these: >>>>> http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp= >>>>> >>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>> >>>>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." >>>>> --- Albert Einstein >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I've given up on this. There is just too much cross talk. I put all >>>>>> radios >>>>>> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays. I try to keep >>>>>> them >>>>>> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too. Life is much much nicer. >>>>>> marlon >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Mike" <[email protected]> >>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM >>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my >>>>>>> messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do >>>>>>> have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been >>>>>>> afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to >>>>>>> create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job >>>>>>> of shielding if you attach the pigtail. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an >>>>>>> issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having >>>>>>> multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the >>>>>>>> box, >>>>>>>> the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>> box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> That's >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from someone >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a >>>>>>>> doing >>>>>>>> nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bob- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM >>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same >>>>>>>> spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if >>>>>>>> there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes >>>>>>>> another one listening. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> push >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 3 >>>>>>>>> meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your >>>>>>>>> customer >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> base. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into >>>>>>>>> 2 >>>>>>>>> 180 >>>>>>>>> degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more >>>>>>>>> customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> just >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> 2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to >>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>> you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for >>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>> growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> sector. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> only >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my >>>>>>>>> remote >>>>>>>>> AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The >>>>>>>>> anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card >>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>> needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of >>>>>>>>> course >>>>>>>>> until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already >>>>>>>>> suggested doing and I like the economics of it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bob- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> On >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Jason Hensley >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM >>>>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak >>>>>>>>> times, >>>>>>>>> we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1meg, but >>>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>>> not happening very often right now. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> On >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Robert West >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:23 AM >>>>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yeah, how much bandwidth are you passing to those 35 customers, >>>>>>>>> Jason? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> curious. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bob- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> On >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of [email protected] >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:10 AM >>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Do you think you're hitting the limit of 802.11b/g or is it the lack >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> horsepower on the AP's CPU? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>>> On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> AP's, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> AP >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've >>>>>>>>>> seen a >>>>>>>>>> performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs >>>>>>>>>> multiple >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> boards >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> with single radios? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> ] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Rick Harnish >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:28 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mark, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> strength >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> your omni. We have had good success with 9 db omni's in the >>>>>>>>>> Indiana >>>>>>>>>> farmland. When we need to sectorize but the market capacity is >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> high, we often go to (2) 180 Superpass 9 db sectors. We have had >>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> luck >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> with them over the years. They improve our signal to existing >>>>>>>>>> clients >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> enable affordable expansion in rural areas. If the market will >>>>>>>>>> justify >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 3 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> sectors, I would go that way though. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Many of our Wireless POPs are pico-cells and we try to limit our >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> salesmen >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> a 6 mile diameter around the tower. Although, we can often go >>>>>>>>>> farther, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> try to stay inside these guidelines when possible. To achieve a >>>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> density >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> of broadcast stations, many locations are needed. Luckily, we are >>>>>>>>>> well >>>>>>>>>> established in our area and have most of these sites already in >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> operation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Your mileage may vary given your topology and broadcast site >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> density. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Rick Harnish >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> [email protected]] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:51 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I am running 2.4 HPOL It has taken about 1.5 yrs to grow this AP >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> 32 >>>>>>>>>>> subs. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> [email protected]] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:37 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What frequency band and polarization? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I would also strongly consider your reasoning for moving from the >>>>>>>>>>> Omni >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> the sectors. If it is because your AP is overloaded so you need >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> offload >>>>>>>>>>> some, 3 AP's might be attractive for future proofing sakes. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Daniel White >>>>>>>>>>> 3-dB Networks >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> [email protected]] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:29 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 9db >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> [email protected]] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Rick Harnish >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:42 PM >>>>>>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What size omni are you using? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:59 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> That is the general suggestion - two 120s. That one guy that >>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>> antenna design said so :) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You will get some less coverage then three 120s but at the cost >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> extra radio/antenna it isn't cost efficient. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/1/09, Mark McElvy <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I need to sector a tower that currently is an omni. I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to go to 3x 120's but find it hard to find 180's and have heard >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> don't tend to work great. I have also heard 2x 120's will work, >>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>> comments? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----------- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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