Oops, yes I got that one backwards. Conductivity of several items is on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_conductivity Resistance of more items is at http://physics.info/electric-resistance/ According to the second site, Steel has about 10x the resistance of copper, about 7x the resistance of aluminum.
[email protected] wrote: > Isn't copper a better conductor? Aluminum is lighter but not as good of a > conductor. That's why high tension wires have to be fatter than copper wires > to carry the same current but they're cheaper and lighter. > > Greg > > On Dec 4, 2009, at 7:29 AM, Scott Reed wrote: > > >> I would think so. Aluminum is a little better conductor, but copper's >> physical characteristics make it easier to work with in many applications. >> >> [email protected] wrote: >> >>> I thought the heavy duty EMP shielding the govt/mil does at protected sites >>> uses copper. >>> >>> Greg >>> On Dec 4, 2009, at 6:38 AM, Scott Reed wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Can you point me to a source to confirm this? Aluminum is a better >>>> conductor than steel so I would think it does a better job. I would be >>>> interested in reading about the physics behind this. >>>> >>>> MDK wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Aluminum is moderately effective at attenuating microwave rf. >>>>> >>>>> Steel is needed to dampen EMP (from lightning strikes). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "Josh Luthman" <[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM >>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case? Do you normally use >>>>>> steel if not? >>>>>> >>>>>> I use these: >>>>>> http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp= >>>>>> >>>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>>> >>>>>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." >>>>>> --- Albert Einstein >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer >>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I've given up on this. There is just too much cross talk. I put all >>>>>>> radios >>>>>>> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays. I try to keep >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too. Life is much much nicer. >>>>>>> marlon >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Mike" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM >>>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my >>>>>>>> messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea. I do >>>>>>>> have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been >>>>>>>> afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to >>>>>>>> create a sort of Faraday shield? I know the XRx cards do a good job >>>>>>>> of shielding if you attach the pigtail. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards? Has that been an >>>>>>>> issue? I think the XR cards have better specs. Wouldn't having >>>>>>>> multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the >>>>>>>>> box, >>>>>>>>> the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>> box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> one that I'm doing just to do it, basically. Was an idea from >>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> couple of months ago. (I actually listen to you guys) Had a 600a >>>>>>>>> doing >>>>>>>>> nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bob- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM >>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same >>>>>>>>> spectrum in the same box? I've thought about that but wondered if >>>>>>>>> there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes >>>>>>>>> another one listening. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall. We aren't lucky enough to >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> push >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 3 >>>>>>>>>> meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your >>>>>>>>>> customer >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> base. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it >>>>>>>>>> into >>>>>>>>>> 2 >>>>>>>>>> 180 >>>>>>>>>> degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more >>>>>>>>>> customers. You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> 2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to >>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>> you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for >>>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>> growth. I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> sector. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> only >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> dole out 1mb per sub typically. I've also been upgrading some of my >>>>>>>>>> remote >>>>>>>>>> AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni. The >>>>>>>>>> anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card >>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> needed to the point where I have 3 sectors. Keeping the Omni of >>>>>>>>>> course >>>>>>>>>> until the third sector is needed. That's something someone already >>>>>>>>>> suggested doing and I like the economics of it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Bob- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Jason Hensley >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP. Most are still able to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg. At peak >>>>>>>>>> times, >>>>>>>>>> we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1meg, but >>>>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>>>> not happening very often right now. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Robert West >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:23 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yeah, how much bandwidth are you passing to those 35 customers, >>>>>>>>>> Jason? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> curious. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Bob- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:10 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Do you think you're hitting the limit of 802.11b/g or is it the lack >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> horsepower on the AP's CPU? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Greg >>>>>>>>>> On Dec 2, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jason Hensley wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On this same subject, would it be better to put up 3 individual >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> AP's, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> would something like the Deliberant Quad work well if the issue is >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> AP >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> overload. I have an AP that has 35 subscribers right now. We've >>>>>>>>>>> seen a >>>>>>>>>>> performance drop on it and are considering sectoring. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Any thoughts on a dual (or quad) radio on a single board vs >>>>>>>>>>> multiple >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> boards >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> with single radios? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Rick Harnish >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 6:28 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Mark, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If I remember right, you are in Missouri. I was looking for the >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> strength >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> your omni. We have had good success with 9 db omni's in the >>>>>>>>>>> Indiana >>>>>>>>>>> farmland. When we need to sectorize but the market capacity is >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> high, we often go to (2) 180 Superpass 9 db sectors. We have had >>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> luck >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> with them over the years. They improve our signal to existing >>>>>>>>>>> clients >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> enable affordable expansion in rural areas. If the market will >>>>>>>>>>> justify >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 3 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> sectors, I would go that way though. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Many of our Wireless POPs are pico-cells and we try to limit our >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> salesmen >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> a 6 mile diameter around the tower. Although, we can often go >>>>>>>>>>> farther, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> try to stay inside these guidelines when possible. To achieve a >>>>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> density >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> of broadcast stations, many locations are needed. Luckily, we are >>>>>>>>>>> well >>>>>>>>>>> established in our area and have most of these sites already in >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> operation. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Your mileage may vary given your topology and broadcast site >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> density. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Rick Harnish >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> [email protected]] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:51 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I am running 2.4 HPOL It has taken about 1.5 yrs to grow this AP >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> 32 >>>>>>>>>>>> subs. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> [email protected]] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:37 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What frequency band and polarization? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I would also strongly consider your reasoning for moving from the >>>>>>>>>>>> Omni >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> the sectors. If it is because your AP is overloaded so you need >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> offload >>>>>>>>>>>> some, 3 AP's might be attractive for future proofing sakes. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel White >>>>>>>>>>>> 3-dB Networks >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> [email protected]] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Mark McElvy >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:29 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 9db >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> [email protected]] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Rick Harnish >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:42 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What size omni are you using? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:59 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> That is the general suggestion - two 120s. That one guy that >>>>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>>>> antenna design said so :) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You will get some less coverage then three 120s but at the cost >>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> extra radio/antenna it isn't cost efficient. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/1/09, Mark McElvy <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I need to sector a tower that currently is an omni. I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to go to 3x 120's but find it hard to find 180's and have heard >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't tend to work great. I have also heard 2x 120's will work, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>> comments? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> Scott Reed >> Sr. Systems Engineer >> GAB Midwest >> 1-800-363-1544 x4000 >> Cell: 260-273-7239 >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! 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