I'm interested in seeing how the "open network" concept plays out. Are they looking to compete with us, or with cable/telcos who lock you into their phone lines, isp, broadband, tv, etc? What will happen to costs when that model breaks?
I'll watch with interest. On 2/10/2010 2:04 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: > Mike, > > Although, I see what you were getting at, your logic is flawed. > > The reason is that Google is colocation, and has a very low cost to connect > to other ISPs. Google is basically buying a patch cable. > Transporting an End user on the other hand has a much larger cost because it > has to be transported all the way to the Colo center. > > These dynamaics have absolutely nothing to do with Google being better at > it. I can negotiate near just as good rates in a colo as they can. > > The factor here is that trading lastmile+middle mile cost for colo-firstmile > cost is not a fair trade. This is why peering started to endorse the > concept of Push versus Pull traffic. > Pull traffic was more in line with typical usage and assoicated with the > higher lastmile/middle mile transport and therefore The push provider pays > the pull provider. > > In the actual colocations center.... If Google connects to a peer switch, > and I (my WISP) connect to the peer switch, and we both pay for our own > connection, in that particular case your logic would hold. > Push and Pull traffic would have equal value, because they were equal spec. > > The arguement that some people make that End Users already pay the ISP last > mile cost is also flawed, but that is a different debate, with different > arguements, and I'm not going there in this Email. > > The facts are Google has created a value to consumers that consumers expect > to recieve, and that every ISP has no choce but to allow that content > through. As a result, Google gets away with not getting charged the full > cost they should. > > We can also look at it another way... Let hypothetically assume broadband > cost each incurred was an equal even trade, and lets just look at sales... > Why does Google deserve the right to profit from my subscriber, but yet me > not be able to profit from their sales to my subscribers? > > Google even acknowledges this. Its one of hte reasons taht they came up with > Adsense. It was an attempt to compensate ISPs for their contribution to the > successful revenue generation. > > Google paying to access the Internet, does not constitute payment to me to > use my network. > > I am not against Google. They provided a better revenue program than other > search engines. And their recognition of the need to compensate other > parties, I beleive heavilly led to their success in the earlier days. It was > the Independant ISPs that helped promote Google, over the less sharing > Microsoft and Yahoo search options. > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL& Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Hammett"<[email protected]> > To: "WISPA General List"<[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 3:12 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google to build ultra-fast broadband networks > > > >> I love how everyone thinks the content people are mooching. You go to the >> other side of the fence and we're mooching off of them. >> >> They negotiate their bandwidth, we negotiate ours. They're just better at >> it. >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Tom DeReggi"<[email protected]> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 12:46 PM >> To: "WISPA General List"<[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google to build ultra-fast broadband networks >> >> >>> I'd say, the press release is not in line with Google's Business model. >>> >>> Google is in the business of collecting revenue, without costs, >>> considering >>> they mooch off others' broadband networks without paying for access to >>> it. >>> >>> It will be interesting to see what Google Execs will think of the project >>> a >>> year down the road, where they incur all the costs and no revenue. I dont >>> see the project being popular amoungst management. >>> >>> Tom DeReggi >>> RapidDSL& Wireless, Inc >>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Robert West"<[email protected]> >>> To: "'WISPA General List'"<[email protected]> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 1:36 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Google to build ultra-fast broadband networks >>> >>> >>> >>>> The same way they have made money from the beginning. Giving it all >>>> away >>>> for free!!! At least on the front end of things...... >>>> >>>> Google makes money in reverse and LOTS of it. Trust me, my man, Google >>>> is >>>> no brainless bunch. There is a lot of money in "Free". I'm sure they >>>> have >>>> an angle to make the big bucks off of it and at the same time presenting >>>> themselves as the benevolent Google that is adored by everyone >>>> worldwide. >>>> Well, except maybe the Chinese who Google censored. Oh, and possibly >>>> the >>>> rest of the world including the US if Google teams up with the NSA as >>>> last >>>> reported...... But still, just a bunch of friendly helpful guys out to >>>> give >>>> it all away for free! >>>> >>>> Bob- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >>>> Behalf Of Marco Coelho >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 1:07 PM >>>> To: WISPA General List >>>> Subject: [WISPA] Google to build ultra-fast broadband networks >>>> >>>> Google to build ultra-fast broadband networks >>>> >>>> WASHINGTON - Google plans to build experimental, ultra-fast Internet >>>> networks in a handful of communities around the country. >>>> >>>> The search company said Wednesday that its fiber-optic broadband >>>> networks will deliver speeds of 1 gigabit per second to as many as >>>> 500,000 Americans. Google Inc. says those systems will be more than >>>> 100 times faster than the networks that most Americans have access to >>>> today. >>>> >>>> In a blog post, the company said the networks will let consumers >>>> download a high-definition, full-length feature film in less than five >>>> minutes and allow rural health clinics to send 3-D medical images over >>>> the Web. >>>> >>>> Google says it will seek input from communities that might be >>>> interested in getting one of the testbed networks. >>>> >>>> ****end of article >>>> >>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100210/ap_on_hi_te/us_tec_google_broadband_netw >>>> ork >>>> >>>> sounds very dot commy to me: >>>> Best price on a 1G pipe is about 1K-5K within a NOC. I wonder how you >>>> make money giving it away? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Marco C. Coelho >>>> Argon Technologies Inc. >>>> POB 875 >>>> Greenville, TX 75403-0875 >>>> 903-455-5036 >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ---- >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ---- >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! 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