True. And if you go with fiber, the IP's are free and are usually via the Telecom. If Time Warner Proper, 15 bucks.
Bob- -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 8:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP Time Warner Telecom and Time Warner Cable are entirely different companies. No present relationship whatsoever. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 8/4/2010 1:23 AM, John Thomas wrote: > Yes, I have heard of them. Time Warner (TW Telecom) is my upstream. We aren't paying for IP addresses, but we only have a /27 of addresses with them. > > > > Robert West<robert.w...@just-micro.com> wrote: > >> ATT and Time Warner. You may have heard of them. :) >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >> On Behalf Of John Thomas >> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:28 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP >> >> Robert, what upstream is charging $15 per month? If that is true, I >> have a portable /19 I am going to start renting...... >> >> John >> >> Robert West<robert.w...@just-micro.com> wrote: >> >>> Depends on if you have to pay for it. Some upstreamproviders give >>> them for free, others not. Some WISPS pay for their own block. >>> Either way, as with everything in business, if I have to pay 15 >>> bucks for a static you better believe that cost is gonna be passed >>> on. That's a HUGE percentage of the cost of providing service to that customer. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>> On Behalf Of Blake Covarrubias >>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:55 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP >>> >>> I wasn't aware so many WISPs charge for static and/or public IPs. >>> >>> We have a /19 and /21 IPv4 allocation, and a /32 v6 allocation. All >>> customers get dynamic, possibly changing, public IPs. We charge for >>> a consistent public IP. >>> >>> NAT causes too many potential headaches for us to even bother with it. >>> >>> -- >>> Blake Covarrubias >>> >>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 7:31 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote: >>> >>>> True. Sounds like a bandwidth hog to me. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 8:46 PM, "Mike"<m...@aweiowa.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Simple analysis might expose that customer to be one you'd rather >>>>> let >> go. >>>>> Or not. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>> On Behalf Of John Thomas >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 6:27 PM >>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP >>>>> >>>>> And if I were your client, and you told me $10 for an IP address, >>>>> I would find a new ISP. The most I have ever seen charged was $5 a month. >>>>> >>>>> John >>>>> >>>>> Kurt Fankhauser<k...@wavelinc.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Everything i keep coming up with to make this work "ideal" >>>>>> according to the >>>>>> customer is I"m gonna have to sell them a public ip for $10/month >>>>>> *grins* and then make sure their CPE is in bridge mode and assign >>>>>> that static to >>>>> the >>>>>> customers router so they can enable UPnP themselves. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Kurt Fankhauser >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Josh Luthman"<j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >>>>>> To: "WISPA General List"<wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:45 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Don't the majority of us NAT at the customer SM? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Adam Kennedy >>>>>>> <adamkenn...@omnicity.net> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> I would agree that it is a security hole for an ISP. UPnP would >>>>>>>> let me >>>>> do >>>>>>>> my own forwards for just about any port I want, including SSH, >>>>>>>> telnet >>>>> and >>>>>>>> web. For that matter, I could just be selfish and port map >>>>>>>> every port from 1024 through 65535 to my IP, completely killing >>>>>>>> access to anyone else. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In an ISP environment, the best option really is to disable >>>>>>>> UPnP if you are doing NAT. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Adam Kennedy >>>>>>>> Network Engineer >>>>>>>> Omnicity, Inc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. >>>>>>>> Schafer >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:43 AM >>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Man that sucks. We turn off upnp on ALL routers. I've always >>>>>>>> been told that it's a big security hole. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thoughts on that? >>>>>>>> marlon >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Josh Luthman"<j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >>>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List"<wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 7:29 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] XBOX live, NAT, and UPnP >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't seem to have any issues with double or triple NAT. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When I was working with MT to fix the upnp issue with Xboxes. I >>>>>>>> have it marked as 4.6 with modifications (it was an unofficial >>>>>>>> 4.6 they gave me) so I would say 4.7 or higher should enable >>>>>>>> Xbox upnp. Even this requires a public IP on the Mikrotik to >>>>>>>> remove even nice strict (I think it's called open?). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Kurt Fankhauser >>>>>>>> <k...@wavelinc.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> So does anyone here have any customers that use XBOX live and >>>>>>>>> bark to you about you NAT? Apparently the XBOX live service is >>>>>>>>> very picky about being behind any NAT device and its ability >>>>>>>>> to make connections to other servers. >>>>>>>>> From what I gathered is that the LIVE service uses Universal >>>>>>>>> Plug and Play >>>>>>>>> (UPnP) to get around this but the question I have is. If your >>>>>>>>> doing masquerade on a Mikrotik Core Router should you enable >>>>>>>>> UPnP on that device? >>>>>>>>> Or should I just issue public IP's to the customer that games >>>>>>>>> and let them worry about it? And if you have UPnP enabled on >>>>>>>>> the core router and >>>>> then >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> a double-NAT through the customers Linksys router with UPnP >>>>>>>>> enable does that not work because of the double-NAT? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Kurt Fankhauser >>>>>>>>> WAVELINC >>>>>>>>> P.O. Box 126 >>>>>>>>> Bucyrus, OH 44820 >>>>>>>>> 419-562-6405 >>>>>>>>> www.wavelinc.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -- >>>>> - >>>>> ------- >>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -- >>>>> - >>>>> ------- >>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -- >>>>> - >>>>> ------- >>>>> ---- >>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -- >>>>> - >>>>> ------- >>>>> ---- >>>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -- >>>>> - >>>>> ------- >>>>> ---- >>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -- >>>>> - >>>>> ------- >>>>> ---- >>>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -- >>>>> - >>>>> ------- >>>>> ---- >>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -- >>>>> - >>>>> ------- >>>>> ---- >>>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -- >>>>> - >>>>> ------- >>>>> ---- >>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -- >>>>> - >>>>> ------- >>>>> ---- >>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> -- >>>>>> - >>>>>> ------- >>>>> ----- >>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> -- >>>>>> - >>>>>> ------- >>>>> ----- >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>> >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -- >>>>> - >>>>> ------- >>>>> ---- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -- >>>>> - >>>>> ------- >>>>> ---- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -- >>>>> - >>>>> ----------- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -- >>>>> - >>>>> ----------- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> -- >>>> - >>>> ---------- >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> -- >>>> - >>>> ---------- >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> --- >>> ----- >>> ---- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> --- >>> ----- >>> ---- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> --- >>> --------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> --- >>> --------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ------- >> ---- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ------- >> ---- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
