Hi Scott, i dont have a microsoft machine in here...so we will have a look for documentation.. Christian
> Von: Scott Cadillac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Antworten an: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Datum: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 14:09:29 -0700 > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Betreff: Re: Witango-Talk: SOAP > > Thank you Christian, I try :-) > > I don't want to discourage you or anybody. > > SOAP with Witango is possible, but at this time it is not easy and there are > still some issue to address. If your client has time for you go through a > learning curve, then it's possible. You can get the job done quicker if you > use some 3rd Party software, like the SOAP Toolkit from Microsoft. > > If you are competing for this job against other developers, then you should > know that developers using IBM WebSphere or Visual Studio .NET are way ahead > in this game. > > Not that these other developers are going to be more knowledgeable than you, > but because the SOAP components of Visual Studio .NET, for example, are so > well integrated in the GUI studio editor - you just have to drag-and-drop a > couple of objects and click some buttons. > > Implementing a SOAP Service call in-line with your code is so easy in Visual > Studio .NET that it can be done in less time that it takes to write this > email. It makes you want to cry :-( > > Good luck.......... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christian Platt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 1:47 PM > Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: SOAP > > >> Scott thank you very much for your long and also very deep and clear >> exploration of SOAP. >> >> I even thing Steve Job knws about an other Kind of SOAP the DOT NET. >> Why else is WebObjects starting with its new Version 5.2 serving the >> WebServices with their WebServiceDescriptionLanguage and an >> implemantation of the axis server... He will know i guess, why he is >> implementing these services. >> >> Christian >> >> Am Freitag, 04.04.03 um 19:17 Uhr schrieb Steve Campbell: >> >>> See >>> >>> I told you Scott would reply. (this only means that he has been with >>> SOAP >>> since the beginning). >>> >>> Scott, I apologize for trying to put you in a position where your >>> expertise >>> has already been reimbursed for monetarily. >>> >>> Secondly, I will look at the examples, although some think as I do, >>> when >>> Steve Jobs was at the last Mac World, and he said, "Does anyone really >>> know >>> what "DOT NET" is?" >>> >>> I am not for sure about DOT NET, but I do think that getting on the >>> SOAP >>> band wagon, will in turn, allow one to get on the DOT NET wagon as >>> well. I >>> am not that concerned as missing the DOT NET train here at the >>> beginning on >>> the Beta 2 caboose, but, I do want to make sure that I dont' miss out >>> on the >>> SOAP wagon. >>> >>> Thanks again Scott, your detailed explainations are very appreciated >>> by me >>> if not by many more on this list. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Steeve >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/4/03 10:54 AM, "Scott Cadillac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Steve, and Christian. >>>> >>>> To be honest, I was curious to see who else might respond to this >>>> first :-) >>>> >>>> I can well imagine that SOAP is on a "to-do" list for Phil, which >>>> would one >>>> of many items I'm sure. Witango is not 100% SOAP ready - but you can >>>> get >>>> pretty darn close. >>>> >>>> Yes, I've implemented SOAP in a number of "custom" applications now, >>>> and >>>> learned a lot in the process. >>>> >>>> .................... >>>> ~ There are two kinds of SOAP you can code for: Dynamic SOAP calls >>>> (true >>>> SOAP) or SOAP where the "definitions" don't change. Witango can do the >>>> later. >>>> >>>> .................... >>>> ~ The standards for SOAP are still evolving and it's pretty hard to >>>> code a >>>> moving target - a challenge for even the biggest software companies. >>>> i.e., >>>> IBM, MS, Sun, etc... >>>> >>>> .................... >>>> ~ True SOAP allows for automated interaction (calls) between two >>>> Services, >>>> where the properties and arguments of those Services can change >>>> dynamically - this is what WSDL is for. WSDL "describes" conditions >>>> and >>>> argument requirements for a Service you are calling. The WSDL has to >>>> be >>>> retrieved and processed before you can make the actual Service "call" >>>> so >>>> that the calling Service knows how to call the Service - follow me? >>>> >>>> Here is a very, very simple example of WSDL: >>>> >>>> http://xml-extra.net/system-services.asmx?wsdl >>>> >>>> This is where most of the Standards changes are happening, at this >>>> dynamic >>>> level. If SOAP is going to dominate the World, it is because of the >>>> success >>>> at the WSDL level - which is supposed to translate into "ease of use" >>>> for >>>> programmers. >>>> >>>> Unfortunately Witango does not have a native parser for SOAP, so >>>> Witango >>>> can't process the WSDL information - you have to do this part >>>> yourself. >>>> >>>> Leaving 3rd Party SOAP Products aside for the moment, this brings us >>>> to the >>>> other kind of SOAP. >>>> >>>> .................... >>>> ~ Witango can do SOAP, if the WSDL information is not being changed >>>> dynamically to a large degree. Then you can read in the WSDL XML and >>>> use >>>> Witango DOM and XPointer to extract some key bits of information, >>>> such as >>>> the names of the available Methods to call, and their Parameter >>>> "introspection" information and the address of the actual Service. >>>> >>>> Based on the information you extract, then you can make "some" >>>> assumptions >>>> about what to do with your actual Service call. If you want to write a >>>> bigger boat-load of code, then you can compensate for the WSDL being >>>> more >>>> dynamic, but just getting to this point at a basic level is already a >>>> large >>>> amount of code. >>>> >>>> Without getting too carried away (not that I have already) with a few >>>> more >>>> issues such as XML over HTTP, DOM (which are the easy parts) and all >>>> the >>>> rest - I just want to say SOAP is possible in Witango, but it's not >>>> easy. >>>> >>>> I'm sure at some point Phil may implement a SOAP Client / Publisher >>>> in the >>>> Witango Editor - but I'm not privy to his plans, so I don't have any >>>> information for you. >>>> >>>> >>>> But, if we DID have a SOAP Client for Witango, you would be amazed at >>>> what >>>> we could do :-) >>>> >>>> .................... >>>> Don't loose hope yet, because you still have 3rd Party Products. >>>> >>>> On Windows, MSXML can give you some basic SOAP like functionality, >>>> which is >>>> free. But Microsoft also offers the "SOAP Toolkit", which is also >>>> free: >>>> >>>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/nhp/ >>>> Default.asp?contentid >>>> =28000523 >>>> (Above URL may word-wrap) >>>> >>>> The SOAP Toolkit makes many things much easier (i.e., WSDL), but >>>> makes other >>>> parts harder. But this will get you the closest to the current >>>> Standards, >>>> which is important. >>>> >>>> Other SOAP add-on tools are available for other platforms as well: >>>> http://www.soapware.org/directory/4/implementations >>>> >>>> Ultimately what we need is a SOAP Client and/or Publisher for Witango. >>>> Something like the "Search Builder", but writes pure Witango files and >>>> outwardly operates like any other SOAP Service and where the files >>>> can move >>>> transparently between other platforms like normal Witango files. >>>> >>>> I have to tell you, I know it's possible, but it'll be alot of work >>>> for >>>> somebody to create a "SOAP Builder" :-) >>>> >>>> .................... >>>> Anyway, to get back to Steve's question about sharing some code. >>>> >>>> I have some code, but because each implementation has been custom to >>>> some >>>> degree (because of the issue of the dynamic WSDL), it may raise more >>>> questions than the solutions you are looking for. Just try checking >>>> out my >>>> Witango XML-RPC stuff, which is the predecessor to SOAP. >>>> >>>> http://xml-extra.net/webpage.xmlx?node=52 >>>> >>>> Plus I need to add that some members of the List have paid for some >>>> of my >>>> SOAP work, and it wouldn't be fair to them to just start giving some >>>> of it >>>> away. >>>> >>>> But, the knowledge I have gained from each of these experiences is >>>> another >>>> matter. SOAP is not for the faint-of-heart, but it will get easier as >>>> time >>>> goes by, I promise you. >>>> >>>> If some of you are interested, we could make SOAP a topic for some >>>> special >>>> training. >>>> >>>> --------- >>>> Anyway, I think I've babbled long enough. I hope this answer some >>>> people's >>>> questions about the topic - or have I just confused you guys more? >>>> >>>> One thing is for sure, I know Phil will be working some late evenings >>>> and >>>> weekends for awhile yet - poor guy :-} >>>> >>>> In the meantime, here are some educational links of interest: >>>> >>>> http://www.w3schools.com/wsdl/default.asp >>>> >>>> http://www.w3schools.com/soap/default.asp >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers............ >>>> >>>> Scott Cadillac, >>>> Witango.org - http://witango.org >>>> 403-281-6090 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> -- >>>> Information for the Witango Developer Community >>>> --------------------- >>>> >>>> XML-Extranet - http://xml-extra.net >>>> 403-281-6090 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> -- >>>> Well-formed Development (for hire) >>>> --------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Steve Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 8:08 AM >>>> Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: SOAP >>>> >>>> >>>>> You know, I would think Scott will reply to this, but, I am really >>>>> curious >>>>> as to how many people here are using SOAP and if there are some,if >>>>> they >>>>> would be so kind as to share some code as to how it's being used with >>>> their >>>>> applications. (tafs) >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 4/3/03 9:34 PM, "Christian Platt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi list, how far is WITANGO supporting SOAP >>>>>> >>>>>> Christian >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> ____ >>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to >>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>>>> ___ >>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body >>>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>>> __ >>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________________________________ >>> _ >>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body >>> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body >> > > ________________________________________________________________________ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body ________________________________________________________________________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body
