I thought about this thread over night, and Sri's comments cover many of my thoughts.
For commercial products, there is either write for and run on Microsoft, or write once/run anywhere. Everyware/Tango was aimed at write once/run anywhere. But the problem was the amount of effort required by the developer to support this model. Java has been successful, partly because of Sun's backing, but also because IBM got behind it. So it seems to me that the path of least resistance is to use the Java model to deliver the functionality of witango. As Sri mentions, this continues to provide cross-platform deployment, and the substantial performance benefits of complilation, but also leverages the investment of over $1 billion into Java tools. For With to be successful, it needs to focus on the benefits it can deliver: rapid development, ease of deployment, flexibile integration. I think that the path is definitely toward servlets. Maybe With will become the Zend of Struts -- providing a comprehensive IDE and a Action Controller to support the Jakarta Struts project. Zend seems to make money at it. >Third-party and Internal Just in Time (JIT) compilers like Symantec, >compile Java Byte Codes to native Machine code after very sophisticated >compile-time optimizations. It is very difficults to manually run >through several layers of optimizations like Java JIT compilers do. >After an automatic first time compilation the result is preserved unless >the source changes. So the code is not interpreted from that point on. >Without proper optimization, all C/C++ code are not the same. There's >good and bad. There lies the power of scripting to avoid re-inventing >the wheel over and over again. Performance of good scripts in complex >tasks can be better than the work of inexperienced programmers working >with native compilers. >Having been raised with Vinyl 33 rpm records, I am certain that record >players sound better than CD and DAT tapes. But only when you drop a 100 >thousand bucks. Until then a $30 pocket CD player, and even MP3 players >will know the socks off the retail record players. Same thing with >native code programming. Even now a lot of NetWare programming in done >with assembly code. The folks at Novell were so concerned ahout shaving >a few milliseconds that there support for C/C++ has been spotty and C++ >has been unavailable until recently. Guess how many applications are >available on Netware? >Regarding C/C++ programming, some successful C++ products are converted >to C (but with top-notch and structured re-organization) to support a >wider range of OSes, since C++ availability is limited. Witango could >raise the performance bar as well as its coverage by converting the >Witango server engine to be natively Java based rather than statically >compiled code. Then we wouldn't have to worry about supporting RedHat 7 >or Redhat 9, or libstdc++ version a.b.xx etc. Stability, memory leakage, >multiprocessor support and cross platform standardization woould cease >to be issues. Is that where Phil is going with teh Java compiler >eventually? Extensions are always available for those want exits to >support COM objects or compiled native programs. One good thing about >Java, it can go anywhere C does. It does not require C++ to be available >for providing its Object-Oriented capabilities. And then again, Witango >is lot easier to program than Java . >Sri Amudhanar >Maxys Corporation >Witango Reseller >Consulting and Training Services >703 729 0600 > >Scott Cadillac wrote: > >>Some good points Robert, >> >>I hear what you're saying. Natively compiled code does run faster than >>Just-in-time compile at the virtual machine layer. >> >>But it does add several layers of complexity too. I'm not an expert at this >>level by any means, but it seams to me that Witango isn't ready to support >>this kind of low-level environment (nor any interpreted language for that >>matter, e.g., ColdFusion). >> >>For example, garbage collection and other memory allocation issues - what >>sort of Metatags would we need for this? >> >>I think this is why the Witango Java Compiler (or a .NET one for that >>matter) has some attraction. The Virtual Machine layer (or .NET CLR) has >>most of these low-level environment features built right in. You just need >>to provide the functional parts of your code and the Machine layer (or CLR) >>does the rest. >> >>If I take a realist point of view here, I think a Java Compiler is a great >>first step in this direction. >> >>Providing your code is well written, Java will still execute faster than an >>interpreted TAF or TCF - AND you now have code that is portable to other >>non-Witango applications. >> >>As you suggested, compiling a TCF is a very excellent starting point. Having >>your TCF compiled as a JavaBean or a .NET Assembly (and with a COM-callable >>wrapper, be accessible as COM) makes your code much more valuable. >> >>I'm not a fan of Java by any stretch of the imagination, but I certainly see >>the significance of this new work Phil has done. >> >>Rome wasn't built in a day, eh :-) >> >>Cheers...... >> >>Scott Cadillac, >>Witango.org - http://witango.org >>403-281-6090 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>-- >>Information for the Witango Developer Community >>--------------------- >> >>XML-Extranet - http://xml-extra.net >>403-281-6090 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>-- >>Well-formed Development (for hire) >>--------------------- >> >> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Robert Garcia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:42 AM >>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Boosting Server Performance, and TCFs >>> >>> >>>The JSP/J2EE model is an example of interpreted and compiled. But I >>>think, Witango is in a unique place because it can seriously >>>outperform >>>JAVA with natively compiled code instead of running through a JAVA >>>virtual machine. Witango is extremely easy to use, I think the next >>>step is to leverage the server and gain performance, and easier >>>portability of code. >>> >>>Robert. >>> >>>On Monday, June 30, 2003, at 10:06 PM, Scott Cadillac wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>It's a pretty exciting concept when you think about it. With the >>>>exception >>>>of classic ASP (now ASP.NET), I don't think any other web >>>> >>>> >>>language has >>> >>> >>>>made >>>>the transition from "interpreted" to "compiled", and >>>> >>>> >>>Witango is inching >>> >>> >>>>closer all the time. >>>> >>>> >>>-- >>> >>>Robert Garcia >>>President - BigHead Technology >>>CTO - eventpix.com >>>2781 N Carlmont Pl >>>Simi Valley, Ca 93065 >>>ph: 805.522.8577 - cell: 805.501.1390 >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/ - http://theradmac.com/ >>> >>>______________________________________________________________ >>>__________ >>>TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/maillist.taf >>> >>> >>> >> >>________________________________________________________________________ >>TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/maillist.taf >> >> >> > > >________________________________________________________________________ >TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/maillist.taf Bill Conlon To the Point 345 California Avenue Suite 2 Palo Alto, CA 94306 office: 650.327.2175 fax: 650.329.8335 mobile: 650.906.9929 e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://www.tothept.com ________________________________________________________________________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/maillist.taf
