Re: Witango-Talk: Loss of Session State Issues.

Robert Garcia Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:56:23 -0700

I do some coporate sites, but most of my work is large business to consumer apps, and I develop to be compatible with everything. The only browser I won't support now is netscape 4.x.

Rules of thumb that I have developed over the years are:

Use simple javascript Use server side solutions whenever possible. Don't use javascript if you can do it server side. Do not have a link on the site that does not contain the <@userreferenceargument>, cookies are not as reliable as you would hope. Do not build flash only elements. Stick with clean, tried and true HTML. Use flash only for intros and non critical elements. Be careful with fancy drop down menus and such that don't work on everything. Test all your work with the lowest common denominator. AOL on dialup.

I am sure there are more, but these are what come off the top of my head. If you are doing corporate intranets, you can disregard this, but consumer compatibility is virtually an artform.

Robert.

On Wednesday, August 20, 2003, at 10:23 AM, Atrix Wolfe wrote:

oh my gosh...
do you know if netscape on mac behaves any better? we have had some bad
experiences with it but havent tested it as thoroughly as IE.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Web Dude" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Loss of Session State Issues.
I gave up on IE on the Mac too. I don't even develop for it anymore.
I heard that Micro$oft is going to be pulling the product
anyway.....YIPPEE SKIPPEE!
Hey Robert,

We too have intermitant problems with browsers, but our problems come
more
in the way of javascript not always functioning (we use javascript to
make
sure dates are valid etc, keep the user in bounds) and browsers arent
always
passing the arguments like they should.

Its very odd and disturbing and somewhat frustrating when you have errors that disrupt your clients work flow that are because the browser isnt
doing
what its supposed to!

We have found that browsers for macs have a whole slew of problems and
that
mac IE is a terrible product...in some versions some of the intermittant argument passing is there so you upgrade and then at the next version
thats
fixed but then its something else.

just wanted you to know were feelin your pain too (;

::growl::
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Garcia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 2:14 AM
Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Loss of Session State Issues.
 The only thing I would add to that phil, is that I have the problem
 with browsers when I am sure cookies are not disabled with the old
 delete code, and it is intermittent. Mostly not working, sometimes
 working.
 I am using the default setup on the server for userkey, and do no
 altering of cookies and such.
Thank you for the info on how the newer servers look for
userreference.
Robert.

On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 11:43 PM, Phil Wade wrote:

I should note here that post args were not searched in T2K or
Witango 5
prior to the 058 build when the server was trying to locate the user reference so the T2K server would only look in the cookies and searchargs.
The 5.0.1.058 server and above looks for a user reference in the
following
order:
1.  user reference cookie
2.  user reference search arg
3.  user reference post arg
Once a user reference is found, the server will no longer continue
to
search
for a user reference in the remaining contexts so now the server
will
use
the first user reference found and not the last.
Search arguments can only be up to 255 chars long so if the server
receives
concatenated search arg data from the Browser it just uses it.  For
this
reason if you are not using user reference cookies and are relying
on
the
user reference search arg it is important to put the user reference
at
the
beginning of the search args, not at the end.
These changes should not have any affect on existing code, except to make the delete of the search builders work with browsers that have
cookies
disabled (see code below).  The delete action passed the user
reference via
a postarg and always created a new user session in this instance.
This was
not a big issue as the search builder did not rely on any user
variables
until it was extended by a user.
Phil

On 20/8/03 2:31 PM, "Robert Garcia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The interesting thing about this, is I have a bunch of simple web
admin
apps with the witango default code, and I haven't had the problem
before. I think it started around v058 or so.
If I use this code:
<form method=post action="<@appfile>" name=deleteMe>
<input type=hidden name="_userreference" value="<@userreference>">
<input type=hidden name="CommonlabSchedule_uid1" value="<@COLUMN
"Common.epxLessonSched.rowid">">
<input type=hidden name="_function" value="delete">
<INPUT TYPE=SUBMIT VALUE="Delete Record">
</form>
It seems to work reliably, So I will have to make a lot of minor
changes.
Robert.

On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 08:50 PM, Scott Cadillac wrote:

Hi Robert,

When METHOD=GET is used in an HTML form, like in your first
example,
all the
FORM element names and values (such as your hidden fields) are
automatically
concatenated to the value of the ACTION attribute. This then
appears
in the
address bar of your browser.
BUT....if the ACTION attribute already contains other search
arguments
(such
as <@USERREFERENCEARGUMENT>), then they are sometimes replaced by
the
concatenated FORM elements. This is a classic pain-in-the-***
issue.
Your <@USERREFERENCEARGUMENT> is being removed which can cause you
to
loose
Session state. In the first FORM example, just replace METHOD=GET
with
METHOD=POST and it should work.
But of course, that doesn't explain your second or third example,
or
why
your Session-cookie didn't pickup the slack.
Are Session-cookies disabled deliberately in your browser? If so,
then
checking things like <@USERREFERENCEARGUMENT> for all your links
will
be
necessary. This includes the TAF files before your actual delete
request.
Also, checking the value of your USERKEY setting in witango.ini
could
be
important too.
If Session-cookies are supposed to be working, then something
strange
is
certainly happening.
Have you tried seeing what's being passed back and forth with an
HTTP
Sniffer of some kind? This will show you exactly the values are
being
sent to the Server (both session-cookies and GET and POST arguments). I recommend www.httpsniffer.com

Hope this helps. Cheers....
Scott Cadillac,
Witango.org - http://witango.org
403-281-6090 - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Garcia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 9:23 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Witango-Talk: Loss of Session State Issues.
I have been having some problems for a while with some admin pages that require a login, so session state is paramount.

If I use the standard code Witango uses for deleting a record,
most
of
the
time, state is lost:
<FORM METHOD=GET ACTION="<@APPFILE>?<@userreferenceargument>">
<INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="_function" VALUE="delete">
<INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="CommonlabSchedule_uid1" VALUE="<@COLUMN
"Common.epxLessonSched.rowid">">
<INPUT TYPE=SUBMIT VALUE="Delete">
</FORM>
I have also tried these variations:

<FORM METHOD=GET ACTION="<@APPFILE>"> <INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="_function" VALUE="delete"> <INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="CommonlabSchedule_uid1" VALUE="<@COLUMN "Common.epxLessonSched.rowid">"> <INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="_userReference" VALUE="<@UserReference>"> <INPUT TYPE=SUBMIT VALUE="Delete"> </FORM>

<FORM METHOD=POST ACTION="<@APPFILE>"> <INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="_function" VALUE="delete"> <INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="CommonlabSchedule_uid1" VALUE="<@COLUMN "Common.epxLessonSched.rowid">"> <INPUT TYPE=HIDDEN NAME="_userReference" VALUE="<@UserReference>"> <INPUT TYPE=SUBMIT VALUE="Delete"> </FORM>

However, if I use this code, I never lose state:
<p><a
href="<@appfile>?_function=delete&CommonlabSchedule_uid1=<@COLUMN
"Common.epxLessonSched.rowid">&<@userreferenceargument>">Delete
this
Record</p>

Anyone else having these issues, or have any ideas?

--

Robert Garcia President - BigHead Technology CTO - eventpix.com 2781 N Carlmont Pl Simi Valley, Ca 93065 ph: 805.522.8577 - cell: 805.501.1390 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/ - http://theradmac.com/

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 Robert Garcia
 President - BigHead Technology
 CTO - eventpix.com
 2781 N Carlmont Pl
 Simi Valley, Ca 93065
 ph: 805.522.8577 - cell: 805.501.1390
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/ - http://theradmac.com/
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Robert Garcia
President - BigHead Technology
CTO - eventpix.com
2781 N Carlmont Pl
Simi Valley, Ca 93065
ph: 805.522.8577 - cell: 805.501.1390
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bighead.net/ - http://eventpix.com/ - http://theradmac.com/

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Re: Witango-Talk: Loss of Session State Issues.

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