Thank you Ian, Your insight is always invaluable.
And yes, I've been in support of the "Save As .Net" idea for at least a couple years now. Sorry, but I got tired of waiting. > Client concerns will not be overcome by a discussion > about quick development time or Total Cost of > Ownership. I therefore salute the drive to "build > some buzz" around the Witango product line. So do I, and so did I, going back a few years now. What more can I say? Anyway, Robert was looking for an explanation, and/or suggestions to his quandary. I gave him one. The fact that the situation is not trivial or simple is evident by the length of some of the posts. As a result, a summarization of my point of view was not easy to write, so I tried to use terms as generic as I could find them. I deferred to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middleware (including reference to IBM, as an example). As well, it's worth taking a look at the following link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_resource_planning Yes, "Enterprise" and "Middleware" are a terrible buzzwords, but the reality is that the software industry is divided on more than one line, and Witango (and other software) has some challenges crossing some of those lines. And like it or not, our customers are moving across those lines at will, whether we like it or not. Which products can we take with us when our customers cross those lines? That's the question. Are we being realistic about the answer? Scott Cadillac --------- Business Extranet Freedom IExtranet ~ http://IExtranet.com Online Demo ~ http://www.northwind.org/#demo --------- Weblog ~ http://xmlx.ca For Hire ~ http://xmlx.ca/forhire --------- 403-254-5002 ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------- P.O. Box 69006 RPO Bridlewood SW Calgary, Alberta Canada T2Y 4T9 > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Daniel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 3:21 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Witango-Talk: [OT] Terminology -- Middleware vs Enterprise > > I have very much appreciated this discussion, and have > pondered it some. > > I don't care to weigh in with anything too profound, except to perhaps > challenge Scott's assertion arounnd the definitions of > "middleware" versus > "enterprise." (see below for a portion of Scott's post) > > Defining code as "middleware" and "enterprise" is convenient, but not > universally universally accepted. I won't go on at length > about this; I > would point only to IBM's description of its own product > line, including > it's flagship J2EE compliant Websphere, as middleware. This > not from the > technical side of the house, but the marketing side. (see > www.ibm.com/middleware ) > > If anyone understsnds buzzwords, it's marketing people, and > if anyone is on > the currently correct side of the buzzline, I defer to IBM. > > This, therefore, leads us back to where the discussion began; > that is, to > marketing and visibility, not to function and features. The > first posts on > this thread a week or so ago spoke to market position or > visibility, and > how, even though the program was powerful, it didn't get any > traction with > the client. The posts part way along, in my opinion, confused market > position with scalability, which is what, again in my > opinion, the word > "enterprise" is all about. > > Nevertheless, the original problem of convincing large IT > players of the > equity of a codebase built and run using a proprietary engine > that few have > heard of -- remains. Client concerns will not be overcome by > a discussion > about quick development time or Total Cost of Ownership. I > therefore salute > the drive to "build some buzz" around the Witango product line. > > Moreover, I would *strongly* support any move that had the > Witango Editor > have the added capability to "Save As .Net" Think about it: > XML code that, > with its server engine, could run on any major OS, or Save as J2EE or > .Net -- dealer's choice. I think if the Editor could move in this > direction, the market position for Witango would be assured, > with sufficient > market share to create its own buzz. > > Finally, since I seldom post, I also would like to add that, > as a community, > sponsored by the awesome leadership, development and support > of Phil and > Sophie, this list is the best ..! > > Sincerely, > Ian > > > ........... SNIP from Scott's Post ........... > > The problem is, web-development has evolved to now > encompasses middleware > solutions - and "Enterprise" solutions. > > Like it or not, the "Enterprise" buzzword is reality. And > "Enterprise" is > the root of Robert's anxiety (and others I'm sure). > > So what's the difference between Middleware and Enterprise? > > ~~~ Middleware, is just glue - that helps to bind different > applications > together to make one solution. Middleware allows end-users to > interact with > a database via a browser, or move data from one system to > another system. It > can be wonderful glue, but still just glue none-the-less. > > ~~~ Enterprise, is a platform - a total solution environment > that provides > end-to-end working, integrated components to deliver results. > Enterprise > components are typically all written using the same language > or standards. > It's about conformity. Another way to read Enterprise is > portability of code > (a.k.a. business logic), and portability reads as savings and > return on > investments. > > Where as, code from a Middleware product > isn't as portable to other components. > > Examples of Middleware for the web world are ColdFusion, PHP, > Perl, Witango > and so on. > > There are only two examples of Enterprise: Java and .NET > > What do the Fortune 5000 companies (or likewise aspiring > companies) want? > > Enterprise - end of story. > > Occasionally those Fortune companies may want a quick fix to a simple > problem, so sometimes they employ a middleware solution - but > don't kid > yourself, Enterprise is their primary objective. > > > ______________________________________________________________ > __________ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf > ________________________________________________________________________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Go to http://www.witango.com/developer/maillist.taf
