Hi OvermindDL1. I wonder what that display name means...but not only that. I am wondering on how quickly you were to respond and thanks for that. Pardon me for my noviceness, but I was only concerned about getting stuck with a library that was badly designed. Having worked with MFC for quite some time, I can only not stop saying about how many design flaws there were in it. To name a few, no use of namespaces, unnecessary capitalization and mapping of events to macros everywhere, limited support for web programming, Started as being non compliant with ISO C++ and since then it is trying to keep up. MS has done well trying to keep up. But after looking at Boost, I think MS has to do a lot to catch up. I am saying this, partly to explain my mindset in understanding C++. After looking at Boost and STL, I find what most C++ developers are saying and working upon. People working on environments other than windows, know about all these, while those working on windows have no option but to use MFC or ATL or plain win32 API. And most of all I have seen that they have real difficulty in working with C++ on other OSes and to develop a true cross platform code. Well that would explain myself a bit more...Also it is a good news that people are already working on a database layer to work with witty. I have n't gotten real interests in managed world as MS is almost investing everything in .NET and C++ is almost waiting for C++ standards to be out. Like yours, my liking for C++ is immense and I would like to be in your shoes some day. My experience is only about 5 years in IT (majority C++) that is about 1/3rd of yours. Those people cannot even look for anything good out there. For instance, Boost is ever performant and has matured over years. Intel has produced a parallel computing library before MS. Having said that I would also like to admit that my real liking to C++ began with Visual C++. It is still the best to work with if implemented properly and with least reliance on libraries like MFC. Let us say relying on MFC only for UI for instance although widgets are better. I still like to develop in Visual C++ and platform portability can be achieved using Visual C++ as well but MS is not keen on providing and investing on it to safeguard windows for some reason. BTW, there are lot of advantages of disconnected architecture in the form of datasets provided by .NET. Can you tell me there is any true advantage having the disconnected architecture apart from the fact that it saves the costs of keeping the database connection open unnecessarily? I suppose, since witty people are working on a layer that will astract the database functionality required and since it is a separate layer, it will use a disconnected architecture...? or not? Since you use SQLite personally, what architecture does it use and what are advantages you are reaping out of it? Also, I believe witty website is developed using witty. If so, I would like to bring to notice that the keyboard inputs won't work on scrolling the page up and down. Also, in some of the samples in witty 2.2.4, he modal dialog popups were not draggable when clicked on title bar. I suppose this is something that is being worked upon... Thanks and Best Regards, Bhushan
On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 9:33 AM, OvermindDL1 <[email protected]> wrote: > I am just a user, not a developer of Wt, so take what I say with a > grain of salt, but my experiences might be useful. Based on what you > said about know C++ very well I will assume that with my responses as > I have been programming in C++ for over 15 years now. > > Now, if you are curious, my initial thoughts about WT: > I know it was built to emulate QT. > I know that from what little of QT I have seen, I hate QT's design > (not the layout, the design, I *HATE* their SLOTS design and a few > other things, thankfully WT does that better). > I started messing with WT, to be honest, it was bliss, after dealing > with PHP and Python and Java and such to make web pages, I was finally > able to do it in the language I love with an ease of use I had not > seen elsewhere before. C/C++ can do it *all*, unlike the other > languages. > > Now on to your questions. > > On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Bhushan Inamdar <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Hi all witty users. I am new to witty and have not looked into the > workings > > in detail. I intend to work on a website for my own purposes and I need > to > > know if witty is the right tool. I see a lot of examples that witty > offers. > > - Cross platform & cross (multi) browser (even plain HTML compliant > > browsers) > > - Makes use of widgets concept > > - Renders leading web technologies code such as javascript, AJAX, etc. > under > > the C++ engine. > > - Is more performant owing to its server side coding in C++ > > - Modal message boxes that are more intuitive > > ...and more. > > If I decide to develop a website using witty and I would try it at some > > point sooner, my question is if I can safely use witty without any > > performance problems? I mean let us say all the commercial web > technologies, > > languages and plugins like .NET, J2EE, Php, Perl, etc. are tried and > tested > > for performance delivery and they require more resources owing to their > > managed environment and lesser control over the garbage collector of the > > managed memory on the heap. However, most of the people are more > comcerned > > about the database access, security, caching, rich UI, etc. and these > things > > First of all, every single one of those languages you listed are > developed in C/C++, so every one of them will be slower then > equivalent C/C++ code regardless, they are all used due to their > ease-of-use (which I think is an absolute joke, I can develop > something faster, easier, and it will run a great deal faster then any > of those other languages above). But also yes, the renderer is > usually not the slow part in the system (if it was, would everyone be > using things like PHP and Python and such? Heck no!), it is the > things you interact with like databases. For note, Wt is very well > multi-threaded, so while you are off waiting for a database response > in one handler, your other handlers will still be spinning along all > nice and fast. > > > On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Bhushan Inamdar <[email protected]> > wrote: > > are provided in plentiful by these technologies. I also understand that > > since witty is considerably new and is open source, expecting that kind > of > > support might be really dumb. But, since I want to start everything with > > open technologies, I have a set of questions here... > > Well Wt may be 'new' compared to much of what you listed, but it has > been out for a while now and is in use by many sites (I found out > about Wt when I ran across it on a company's About page for what they > used for their server). > > > On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Bhushan Inamdar <[email protected]> > wrote: > > - Can you list a few key important things, that can be done using .NET or > > J2EE but not using witty? > > Impossible. Since both J2EE and .NET are developed in C, and C++ is a > super-set of C, that inherently means that C++ can do everything they > can, and still more (try seeing how easy server-push is in those > compared to Wt for example). > > > On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Bhushan Inamdar <[email protected]> > wrote: > > - How good does C++ interact with javascript? As you said Wt uses > > C++ wrappers for Javascript, does it not put an extra layer over the > > javascript and create a performance issue while other technologies use > java > > script as is? Or is the overhead negligible? > > The Wt devs came up with a rather excellent solution, and once you go > through it you will see. You still can use Javascript as is, but it > is *very* easy to register a javascript function that can do things on > the C++ side, and vice-versa. Their design is quite ingenious, it can > quite literally do it all and do it all very fast (faster then > everything else you listed). > > > On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Bhushan Inamdar <[email protected]> > wrote: > > - What is the best database library to work with witty? Is there any > > specific UI support for database interaction? > > C++ can of course use any database in existence, so use what you want > (I use SQLite personally, but for a bigger site you would no doubt > want something bigger like PostgreSQL or MySQL). The Wt devs have > been making their own DB abstraction layer which will be released > soon; I have not taken a look at it, but if it is anything like their > previous work then it will be quite simple and easy to use. > > > On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Bhushan Inamdar <[email protected]> > wrote: > > - Problem with me is, I have hardly used C++ for web programming like > this, > > just some n/w, socket, ActiveX...but not widgets and definitely not > witty. > > Don't have much understanding, but I know it will all come as I have > worked > > with C++ a lot. Is there any support for XML or other web services? Can I > > call them from witty? > > A couple questions here, first, you program in Wt just like you > program a desktop GUI, it is a pretty equal abstraction and makes > creating webpages very *fast* if you have done any real GUI work at > all. > And as stated, C++ can do it all, there are tons of XML things for > C++, and Wt comes with its own as well, use whatever you want. And > yes, as with all web services, C++ supports it all, and Wt even > supports many things natively like the wonderful server-push. > > > On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Bhushan Inamdar <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Some of the questions may appear out of sync and unrelated owing to my > > limited knowledge on web programming with C++. But, your comments will > help > > refine my understanding. > > I have done web programming with C++, just CGI programs, not at all > pretty or easy to use, Wt was an absolute wonder when I came across > it. Using Wt, programming a web app is extremely similar to > programming a GUI app, and if you have done any of that, you will fall > right into Wt. I was making complex setups within a couple of hours > of first learning Wt, well worth it. > > > On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Bhushan Inamdar <[email protected]> > wrote: > > So thanks in advance and as per the comments, the more the merrier.... > > No problem. As stated though, I am a Wt user, not a Wt dev, but these > are my experiences as someone who practically considers C++ his first > wife. :) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Return on Information: > Google Enterprise Search pays you back > Get the facts. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/google-dev2dev > _______________________________________________ > witty-interest mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/witty-interest >
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