Hi Adrian, thanks for this clarification.
I agree it is useful to say what the working group is doing; I don't have a strong view about the level of detail regarding the background information. It is always difficult to find the right level. In any case, it is great to hear that you are not objecting against the work. Ciao Hannes On Jan 31, 2013, at 10:47 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hannes, > > For whatever reason, the IESG has YES, BLOCK, and NO OBJECTION for charter > evaluation. BLOCK takes the same position as DISCUSS for an I-D. > > In my case, I wanted to Discuss the charter text with the sponsoring AD (see > my > note at the foot of this thread). The original draft charter very nearly > didn't > actually mention the working group, but had lots of good words about Web PKI, > how it is used, and what the problems are. While it is helpful to have some > background and motivation, I believe it is move valuable to describe the work > that the working group will do. > > In my re-draft I have tried to retain some of the background, but to > reorganise > the text so that it more pithily describes the working group. > > I present it as an offering at your altar, not as a mandatory change. I don't > want to get in the way of the formation of this WG, but I would like to use > the > week remaining before the IESG telechat to try to get a better charter. If the > mailing list says "We spent a lot of effort crafting the current text. We like > it. It is good" then I am likely to back down. > > Cheers, > Adrian > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Hannes Tschofenig [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: 31 January 2013 07:08 >> To: Ronald Bonica >> Cc: Hannes Tschofenig; [email protected]; [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [wpkops] FW: Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-wpkops-00-01: >> (with BLOCK) >> >> Hi Ron, Hi Adrian, >> >> I am curious what the blocking objection is when the text that Adrian >> proposes >> does not in any way change the charter. >> >> Ciao >> Hannes >> >> On Jan 30, 2013, at 10:06 PM, Ronald Bonica wrote: >> >>> Folks, >>> >>> Adrian Farrel has posted a blocking objection to the proposed WPKOPS charter >> and offered alternative text (attached). IMHO, the text that Adrian proposes >> does not in any way change the WG's charter. >>> >>> Does anyone object to using Adrian's alternative text? >>> >>> Ron >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 12:47 PM >>>> To: Ronald Bonica; 'The IESG' >>>> Subject: RE: Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-wpkops-00-01: (with >>>> BLOCK) >>>> >>>> Alright Ron, >>>> >>>> How does the attached look? I believe I have captured all of the WG >>>> actions, and all of the out of scope items. >>>> >>>> But I have also tried to remove a lot of the explanation and history. I >>>> can believe this is interesting, but not that it belongs in the >>>> charter. >>>> >>>> If it is no good, throw it out and I will probably Noobj the charter >>>> (given the "urgency" :-) >>>> >>>> A >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >>>>> Of Ronald Bonica >>>>> Sent: 30 January 2013 15:12 >>>>> To: Adrian Farrel; The IESG >>>>> Subject: RE: Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-wpkops-00-01: >>>> (with >>>>> BLOCK) >>>>> >>>>> Adrian, >>>>> >>>>> The two paragraphs below, taken from the charter, tell you what the >>>> WG will do: >>>>> >>>>> "Starting from the premise that more consistency in Web security >>>>> behavior is desirable, a natural first step is to document current >>>> and >>>>> historic browser and server behavior, including: the trust model on >>>>> which they are based; the contents and processing of fields and >>>>> extensions; the processing of the various revocation schemes; and how >>>>> the TLS stack deals with PKI, including varying interpretations and >>>>> implementation errors, as well as state changes visible to the user. >>>>> Where appropriate, specific products and specific versions of those >>>>> products will be identified." >>>>> >>>>> "Future activities may attempt to prescribe how the Web PKI "should" >>>>> work, and the prescription may turn out to be a proper subset of the >>>>> PKIX PKI. However, that task is explicitly not a goal of the >>>> proposed >>>>> working group. Instead, the group's goal is merely to describe how >>>>> the Web PKI "actually" works in the set of browsers and servers that >>>>> are in common use today." >>>>> >>>>> I wouldn't fault the authors for providing "reams of background >>>> text". >>>>> When crafting this text, they were very aware of the fact that the >>>>> were writing to an audience that had no background in the area. >>>>> >>>>> If you want to take a crack at wordsmithing the charter, go for it. >>>>> >>>>> Ron >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Adrian Farrel >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:37 AM >>>>>> To: The IESG >>>>>> Subject: Adrian Farrel's Block on charter-ietf-wpkops-00-01: (with >>>>>> BLOCK) >>>>>> >>>>>> Adrian Farrel has entered the following ballot position for >>>>>> charter-ietf-wpkops-00-01: Block >>>>>> >>>>>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to >>>>>> all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to >>>>>> cut this introductory paragraph, however.) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - >>>>>> -- >>>>>> BLOCK: >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Look, I am in favor of forming this working group, but this is a >>>>>> really awful draft charter! Far too much waffle, and far too little >>>>>> about what the WG will actually do. >>>>>> >>>>>> I could have a stab at rewriting, but I doubt I know wnough about >>>>>> the topic to make a good job. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can someone tell me that the reams of text are actually needed, or >>>>>> can someone please take an axe to it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >>> <wpkops.txt>_______________________________________________ >>> wpkops mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkops > _______________________________________________ wpkops mailing list [email protected] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkops
