I think the question should not be "which languages are you good at?", but what you have comprehensive awareness of. I'm also inclined to believe that's what ppk is likely to be focussing on - because just as much as he has a great sense of design and is one of javascript's greatest, his greatest focus has always been standards advocacy and spreading healthy attitudes in web dev.

As so many people have pointed out, simply saying you've got good working knowledge of css and php is fine for a job - and as things to be demanded for a specific gig those are useful terms - but as career attributes they're simply no good because of the failure of such statements to address the constantly evolving media and the world around them.

I would classify myself as a front-ender, but not because of my focus on design work - or my greater aptitude in ecma, css and markup compared to my php, asp or python. I think the greater qualification comes in standards awareness and interest/participation in the development of standards-concerned technologies. Given time I can learn pretty much any code, but what 'back-enders' value about me at work is not my clear understanding of the overflow property - it's the fact that I'll know when and why a particular browser will exhibit certain behaviour and how to fix it; or why a navigation system based on images without alt text is criminal; or how to ensure complete accessibility in a pre-made site while still having everything look the same.

Likewise what back-enders have that I appreciate most is the ability to tell me why my sql databases aren't updating; why my server's ground to a halt; how I can ensure user security on a cms; etc.

I reckon it's far more to do with practical ability and healthy thinking than literal knowledge.


Lucien Stals wrote:
That's interesting.

I wonder how many of us are in a similar position?

In my role, I work in a multimedia group of 5. (1 illustrator, 1
graphic designer, 1 multi media developer who does some front end web
stuff, our manager and myself).

I maintain many static web pages on our public site, and develop new
stuff which is mainly static html, but also develop some php/mysql stuff
and some javascript. The web sites server is maintained by the IT
department.

I've also recently become the maintainer of our intranet server
(win2003 server which I know next to nothing about). This involves
maintaining the server itself as well as  maintenance of applications on
the server and some development in php/mysql.

What do the rest of you do? How many of us *don't* have to be a
jack-of-all-trades?

Lucien.


Lucien Stals
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

On Thu, Jul 5, 2007 at 10:41 AM, Kevin Futter
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 5/7/07 9:37 AM, "Lucien Stals" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
I think I missed something in the original question. The "front
end"
part. Somebody else categorised some of the technologies as "back
end"
and that got me wondering.

When I said I was a web developer, I meant back end development. So
what is front end development? DHTML? Anything not related to
visual
design but *not* talking to a back end system? (as opposed to front
end
design)

Developing for the web is such a mixed bag, I just can't see an
easy
way to categorise things into dev/design or front end / back end.

I like Bruce's suggestion for a break down, but he too acknowledges
the
"grey area" around development. And I'd say that once you touch the
db,
you are definitely back end, not front end.

In the end I guess I question the validity of defining developers
in
terms of front end and back end. Can we just stick to designers and
developers?

Lucien.
I work in a school as part of a team of 3 IT people, so I need to be
able to
do it all -  from configuring the server to developing the databases
to
designing the interfaces to building the back- end to crafting the
HTML/CSS
to coding the JavaScript where necessary. So, roles like that do
indeed
exist, especially in small businesses or where this kind of work is
not core
business. Am I an expert practitioner of all these disciplines and
technologies? Of course not, but I get the job done, and know how to
find
out what I need to know. Your biggest asset in this game is your
problem- solving ability, regardless of how you define your role. For
the
record, I usually describe myself as a 'web developer', but my
school
defines my role as 'IT Support'. (I'm also responsible for my share
of IT
support and staff training too, so it doesn't even end there!)

Kevin


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