Standards compliance doesn't automatically guarantee an accessible site and there's every chance that valid, semantic markup could be just as or even more inaccessible than a site using tables for layout and inline styles so I do agree and that wasn't the point I was personally trying to put across.
If accessibility is considered by a skilled web designer who understands how users are likely to be impacted by different aspects of accessibility then these issues can be dealt with at the outset rather than trying to implement accessibility afterwards. I wasn't trying to belittle accessibility or suggest that it was easy but with the right skills and knowledge it should cost very little to implement single A compliance at the very least which in my opinion far too many websites fail to do. Considering aspects of the design that you've mentioned along with things like colour contrast, colour blindness, type of device being used, browser font-size etc go over and above web standards. However, if they are considered at the beginning of a project then it's not something that will add a huge amount of cost to development compared with another company who only decide at the end of development that they now need to consider accessibility. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dave Woods http://www.dave-woods.co.uk [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 08/10/2007, Steve Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "The cost of adding accessibility should really be zero." > > Statements like this illustrate a total lack of understanding that I am > dismayed to encounter in this group. Standards compliance does not equal > accessibility. It's just one part of it, and arguably the easiest part. > > > "As a designer/developer I don't really care about blind people. I don't > consider them (gasp!). I do consider PDAs, cellphones, text-only browsers, > screenreaders and google." > > That's your choice but don't kid yourself that you're building accessible > websites. You aren't. You are building standards-compliant websites, and > that's not the same thing. You are defining accessibility to be the bits you > like doing, and you're pretending the difficult stuff does not exist or > isn't important or isn't your responsibility. > > It can be very challenging to design content that people can understand when > it is linearised or if they can only see a small part of the screen or they > can only use a keyboard or keyboard emulator to navigate. To say that it's > someone else's problem is a total cop-out and is unworthy of a professional > designer. > > Of course it would be nice if user agents were better than they are, but > some of these issues of comprehension are down to people, not the user > agents. If a web designer's job is to communicate to people (and I'll bet > that's what your customers expect), you ought to be taking people into > account in your designs. > > Steve > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Christian Snodgrass > Sent: 08 October 2007 07:21 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility > > I agree completely with you. With the exception of your API specifics, I > think the same exact way. > > The cost of adding accessibility should really be zero. It takes no extra > time or effort if you are designing and coding your websites the proper, > because the methods used for accessibility are also the standards for basic > web design. Also, many of the changes that help make a website accessible > are also very good for things like cross-browser compatibility and S.E.O. > > Christian Snodgrass > Azure Ronin Web Design > > Joseph Taylor wrote: > > McLaughlin, Gail G wrote: > >>> We always ask the client if they require that the site comply with > >>> accessibility. > >>> > > > > Why not say "Would you like a shitty website, or a good quality > > website"? Well-made shouldn't be an extra feature... > > > > In fact, since its clearly cheaper and easier to make a crappy > > website, why don't you just mock up pages in Illustrator, save the > > whole thing as an image with no alt attribute, and use that instead of > > a real page? Thats real cheap and easy. Heck, there are people that > > actually do that! Most people will never know! > > > > I cannot tell anyone how to run their own business, or design a > > website for that matter, but I want to state for the record that > > anyone on this list should be doing there very best to make the best > > sites they can. Adding alt attributes to images and doing other minor > > things that make pages more adaptable to devices and more > > user-friendly is the right thing to do. > > > > Blind people? Accessibility is not about blind people. > > > > As a designer/developer I don't really care about blind people. I > > don't consider them (gasp!). > > > > I do consider PDAs, cellphones, text-only browsers, screenreaders and > > google. > > I take the responsibility upon myself to deliver a product that works > > on all of them. I also make no guarantees. I don't mention > > accessibility or other browsers, etc to the client since the aren't > > considered with the computing world beyond their own desktop for the > > most part. > > > > Those who do ask get the speech of the year and come away knowing that > > it's a major part of my methodology. I do it for my own satisfaction. > > Each site is a little better than the last and comes a little closer > > to being the perfectly marked-up document that it should be to > > properly function of all devices. > > > > Does this take longer or cost more? I'll say not. My PHP coding goes > > 10 times faster since I use the codeigniter framework to handle the > > typical BS, my javascript goes 10 time faster since I use jQuery to > > handle the typical BS, and I have written enough sites that I have a > > pretty good process going, the result being a better site put together > > more quickly. > > > > For some developers it will take longer and cost more. I know people > > that shudder to think of making a navigation bar by hand, forever > > stuck to dreamweaver's horribly bloated javascript rollover menu. For > > them its simply not an option. > > > > Joseph R. B. Taylor > > --------------------------------- > > Sites by Joe, LLC > > "Clean, Simple and Elegant Web Design" > > Phone: (609) 335-3076 > > Web: http://sitesbyjoe.com > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************* > > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ******************************************************************* > > > > ******************************************************************* > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ******************************************************************* > > > > ******************************************************************* > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ******************************************************************* > > ******************************************************************* List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *******************************************************************
