On 8/19/23 21:37, René J.V. Bertin via X11-users wrote:
On Saturday August 19 2023 11:02:27 David Ledger wrote:
I think that "dead on every platform" is a bit premature.
I'd hope so, but if even a Debian clone like Devuan Chimaera now uses a
Wayland-based login manager one starts wondering.
The new alternative has to work well on all platforms before the old is
dead on all platforms. The old will remain alive on platforms where the
new doesn't work but the old does. Sounds like X is on its way out though.
Air. Is Wayland available on Mac? What would be really useful would be
I only know someone got it to build but I still haven't tried it. Thing is that
the underlying libraries were clearly developed for Linux, using Linux-specific
syscalls which AFAIK don't exist on *BSD nor on Mac. Of course Wayland is a
very different beast that (to me) looks much more akin to the Mac's approach
with window server (or whatever it's called again) rather than an X11 server +
window manager. That probably also means that even if you could, say, build
QtWayland and ultimately KWin/Wayland (which is the compositor used for the KDE
desktop) you couldn't just run that because it would try to take over the
entire desktop. At best it'd work like XQuartz in rooted mode.
I've used that approach for a long time, switching between a traditional Unix/X11
workstation and a modern desktop environment, "on opposite sides of the screen"
as I called it. I don't think many people would accept that nowadays...
An X-server for iPad doesn't exist, but Wayland?
Haven't people succeeded in installing Linux onto iPads? Or you could get yourself a
ChromeTab; those do use Wayland as their compositor/renderer, plus you can
"side-load" Linux onto them ;)
Wayland would have to work under iOS to be worth having.
I have been using X for those 40 years but it's been a while since I
used X-clients other than xterm
That begs the question why you need X at all?
I only use xterms currently. xterm rather than Terminal on Mac; xterm
rather than Xfce on Ubuntu, so I use the same term on both. Xfce is also
X of course because that's whet my Ubuntu uses.
to look? Everything I've found concentrates on it being a purely
localhost thing
It is, unless you run xwayland, which is an equivalent of XQuartz...
Is xwayland X based?
We used to run Firefox (or Netscape?) on Unix servers
displaying on a PC X-server. Are those sorts of things available on
current VMs? On Docker?
Have you realised that the big browsers today have more or less become OSes in
themselves, and use hardware acceleration, OpenGL or Vulkan or whatever other fast
rendering & compositing protocol the host offers? And on their side, sites have
developed into desktop-like designs making heavy use of those accelerated rendering
options. I haven't tried to run either on a remote screen for a long time, and the
times I tried simpler QtWebengine or WebKitGTk browsers remotely that wasn't
exactly a success.
I have noticed that they are getting bigger and bigger. I tend to visit
sites that don't need fancy stuff so I don't really know what they can
do these days. I shop for DIY stuff, household stuff, computer stuff and
sometimes food, but mainly look for textual information.
Running a browser on Docker would make it safer to visit 'dangerous'
sites because only the throw away Docker VM would be corrupted. I used
to use a browser run on a headless server to download things to it
because it was so difficult to get the same thing from the PC to the
server.
Actually, Jeremy once pointed out that a proper Wayland implementation on Mac
could be the solution for the issues that exist with the X server (i.e. we'd be
using xwayland) ;)
R.
Thanks for the insights. ,
David
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