Re: [XC] making snow at Elver Park?

[Derek J Popp]

The most feasible way to make snow on the trail is to make a big pile and move it around.  This would minimize laying water pipe, and power lines (the big machines run on 400 volts), but we would need some heavy equipment to more the snow.  The downhill areas actually make big piles and then use their groomers to create a smooth surface by moving the snow around.  I also think that if we're serious we need to be looking at good equipment.  It does matter in the quality of snow that is made.  The best temperature for making snow is 5-25F.  To make good snow at higher temperatures you have to use additives, which cost a lot.  I think that water pressure needs to be > 100psi.  Years ago when we had the races at Tyrol Basin, just to use the facilities was a $10 change (snow, grooming, lights, having the buildings open), so this is not a cheap idea, but it is something that can be done the alpine areas have been doing it for years.

Derek


  At 12:20 PM 1/15/02 -0600, Pete Anderson wrote:

Areco is supposed to be the leader in high efficiency snowmaking-- which translates to better snow yield at higher temperatures. They also make relatively small machines. Their website says that they will consult on development of snow making systems:

http://www.snowmaking.com/

Their smallest model produces about 60 cu m/hour. That's about 180 sq m to a one foot depth. I believe I've heard its in about the $20,000 range. Smaller machines are really just for decorating your yard for Christmas, or making a patch big enough to turn small figure-8s.

on 1/15/02 11:43 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Great Scott, we should form a committee

basically, the response i got from the city is that they are willing to donate the 1) water and 2) power

Remember, however, the city is interested in snow both for skiing and for sledding on the big hill, i think it's important to make sure this doesn't become a "skier only" effort, if it's billed as something for all winter sports people, it stands a much better chance of gaining support of Ald. Linda Bellman (who represents the Elver area) and the rest of the city council

My dream is a 2K lighted ski loop running along the base of the hill in front of the new shelter, it would follow the old Gammon Road (which is now overgrown and used as a footpath) and loop back parallel to the bike path. More snow could be blown on the gentle slope in front of the shelter for a kid's play area

Having a man-made snow loop would allow scheduling of lessons, kids programs, high school practice, adult racing, etc. I would be the most used Nordic Center in southern Wisconsin and in low snow years would draw skiers from Milwaukee, Illinois and Iowa

Of course, when nature participates, the entire Elver Trail system would kick into gear

This is not a pipe dream folks, City parks director Jim Morgan is on board but it's up to skiers to make it happen

Any experts in snowmaking out there?

-----Original Message-----

From: Scott Bachmeier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Sent: 01/15/2002 11:25 AM

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject: [XC] making snow at Elver Park?

Mike Ivey brought up the subject of generating interest in snow making

at Elver Park at last night's MadNorSki meeting...and as I cycled home

from said meeting, I thought that we should try to keep some momentum

going on this idea.

I talked a bit today to a co-worker who helps with the snow making

activities at Blackhawk Ski Club. As one would expect, snow making

like they do at the downhill places is complicated and expensive,

with the major concerns being:

* water source

* high-pressure pump(s)

* piping

* snow guns

However, if we try to keep it simple and small-scale, I think adding

*some* snow making capability at Elver is possible. If MadNorSki has

some money in the bank, and if there is support from Madison Parks,

let's capitalize on these positives. We'd probably need MadNorSki

volunteers to operate the snow making equipment, but I think there

are enough of us (myself included) who would gladly do so if it meant

skiing earlier, better, and longer at Elver.

With our limited monetary resources, we might be restricted to

low-tech devices like the "Backyard Blizzard"

http://www.backyardblizzard.com

At $2000 each, though, perhaps we could set up a network of 3 to 5

of these units to blow some snow around the flats at Elver. I doubt

we could set something up to cover the wooded trail sections, but

maybe we could also blow a snow pile to be used for filling in

bare spots and whatnot in other sections of the Elver trail.

Just having a narrow oval track of reliable snow would please a lot

of folks in snow-lean times like these.

Anyway, these are my fleeting thoughts so far on the Elver Snow

Making Idea. Perhaps MadNorSki has already done feasibility studies

in the past -- I'm relatively new to the Club, so I don't know.

But if some sort of Ad Hoc "Snow Making Committee" is needed to

look into this further, I'm willing to volunteer...

-Scott

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