On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 12:51:36 +0200 Sanel Zukan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:
> > In the Inkscape project we're constantly butting up against the problem > > where there simply aren't enough modifiers for everything we'd like to > > implement. This means for most of our tools there is a constant battle > > to figure out how we can fit everything into Alt, Ctrl and Shift. We > > manage. But, many window managers are using alt click to drag windows > > which takes 1/3 of our options away. > > AFAIK, you are not the only one; seems that blender uses alt+mouse > for it's own options too (presumably there are a lot of other apps with > the same needs). Altought I'm not an artist, occasionaly usage of these > tools gives me feeling that everybody likes alt+mouse combination :) > > But... > > As example, edewm wm didn't come, for a long time, with these bindings > by default (just because of these problems), and people started to complain > about 'non-standard' behaviour. Looks like chicken-egg problem; on other > hand, like Raster said, wm simply have advantage in this field. > > > - Somewhere there is a spec that allows a window manager hint to be set > > by applications to say "I'd really like Alt, please!!!" > > And this would mess things a lot. Let say end user expecting > alt+mouse behaviour from wm (like window moving), and after that app starts, > I simply wanishes, giving priority to application. For most of them > this will look like a bug, if not properly documented that X and Y apps > modify wm's alt key. Or what if that app crashes or forget to send hint > "Ok, I'm done, revert that alt key" ? well advantage - and "we got the binding first". so from our point of view apps are coming in and asking us to change what we have been doing for a decade because they suddenly want to use bindings we have been using for a decade, instead of being configurable or finding other combinations/modifiers to use :) > > My personal favorite here is "2" -- I think that the Meta key could be > > turned into the "desktop" key where other desktop actions could be > > assigned to it also. > > And this will be very hard to change now; older wm's and current ones > already heavily use alt, not to say that a lot of people expecting > the same from wm. yup. i can say now - users will revolt if it is removed. > > No, the reason that I was suggesting that a WM use meta is because in > > general, I think the desktop knows a lot more about the hardware that > > it's working with. > > Not quite true; desktop might see just plugged in keyboard but have no > advantage over app (except ordering wm to steal buttons or whatever). > Things (in case of desktop) complicates even more; there are expeced keys > for taskbar, etc. etc. yup. and each desktop may have different featuresets and thus have differing needs for bindings - some may use a lot, some a few, etc. > > Some sources say that SpaceBar+Alt is the correct combination for Meta. > > IIRC, Meta behaves a little differently: it is always persistent -- > > stays on till you press the next key or Esc to cancel it. > > Uh, things with Meta key are not better either :). Sun keyboards come with > true key, some apps emulates it via Alt, some via Win key... some - though these days the win key ends up being super it seems. > Best, > -- > Sanel > _______________________________________________ > xdg mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg > -- ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) _______________________________________________ xdg mailing list [email protected] http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg
